What happens when you die?
This straightforward question seems so typical of commentator Lee, a New Yorker with a potty mouth and the most eloquent of emails. She sent me this question with a history. A history of never experiencing the lead up to someone close to her dying.
Her father died suddenly at work from cardiac issues and her mother had a catastrophic stroke when on holiday. Lee was not at their bedside when they passed nor has she been at anyone else’s bedside since.
She called herself a death virgin
And they are not as rare as you think.
So Lee wanted to know,
So what happens when you die?
In my experience the body compensates with illness, cancer, disability , trauma , whatever the problem is until simply put, it can’t anymore. The physical and emotional struggle becomes too much and the patient is what is often referred to and being on the landing.
This euphemism is useful for it allows the patient and their relatives to understand where they are at. The landing is at the top of the stairs and the patient is about to deteriorate further.
I’ve heard relatives use the word slippery slope too
The patient often will become very tired indeed and will sleep most of the time. They will become weaker, go off their legs and reduce the amount they eat and drink.
They will interact less too and nursing needs will increase.
This is the time friends and family need to understand what could happen.
Medication cannot now be safely given in oral form and pain relief ,medications to aid comfort and reduce restlessness can be given, often in large dosages by syringe driver. The syringe driver administers a set amount of medication per 24 hours and can be monitored and changed by nursing staff as and when.
As the patient deteriorates further, they will become more unconscious and less aware of their surroundings. Sometimes delirium and terminal agitation show themselves and although very normal in their presentation, these two stages of dying can be the most distressing for relatives to watch.
Delirium is a complex psychiatric condition linked to encephalitis, infection, and organ failure and is a condition often worse at night. The patient can before restless and confused, sometimes angry and “ bothered” they are often difficult to cope with, may fall out of bed during the early stages and are not the loved ones everyone knows.
Terminal agitation is similar and often shows itself as a constant restlessness and anguish and both situations although “ normal” need prompt and expert treatment.
I often tell relatives that because of organ failure and disease progression these symptoms will arise and a prompt change of medication often will dampen down the distressing symptoms.
Keeping relatives in the loop is vital for them to be able to cope
The objective for any palliative care nurse is for their patients to be comfortable and there are several assessments that are done at the bedside to insure that happens.
At this time the patients are usually deeply unconscious .
Now is the time you explain how the patients breathing may change.
Over a period of time breathing can become shallower, more rapid then become slower with gaps appearing . Again it’s important to reiterate that this is perfectly normal and medications such as morphine may be given to lessen the effort of breathing.
Here often the worry of secretions and the presence of the “ death rattle” can be discussed. Noisy breathing frightens most loved ones, and it’s important for the relatives to know that it’s not distressing to the patient and may be only a tiny bit of fluid that is caught and unable to be swallowed. There is medication that can help dry up secretions too as well as judicial moving of the patient which can minimise the issue.
And so your patient has let go of the landing and is actively dying.
Each one will do it in their own time, yet most hospice nurses will read the patient and will know when death is imminent .
With the appropriate meds on board, I’ve never witnessed a death that wasn’t peaceful but having said all that there are a good but smaller proportion of people who just die peacefully in their sleep without any interventions at all
Thank you John for that detailed, frank and honest description. Bless you xx
ReplyDeleteBeing frank, honest and clear is what relatives and some patients need their nurses to be
DeleteThat explanation helps enormously. I can now better understand and mentally cope with the final hours I witnessed of a loved one. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteI’m pleased you have said that. At my stage of working wouldn’t it be awful if I had pitched everything wrongly
DeleteThank you, John. Although I was an auxiliary nurse for several years and have seen dying patients and the dead, I have never been present at the actual moment of death. Your explanation of the process of dying, I'm sure, will allay many fears. xx
ReplyDeleteThank you, some of the best hospice staff are the auxiliary nurses, or support workers ,I have the honour to be working with a glorious half dozen or so
DeleteI watch videos from a couple of hospice nurses on instagram and find them quite interesting.
ReplyDeleteThey cover the same material you have here, John but in smaller chunks.
I've seen pets euthanased but never seen any natural death.
My daughter half my age has seen a dog and a person and I envy her. My first will likely be my parents and I wish I could gain some confidence before they go.
Thanks for explaining.
Kylie
DeleteMy advice is to ask questions
Always ask questions no matter how daft they sound. Also always ask if there is meds in place and prescribed if the symptoms I have outlined rear their head.
This is vital x
Thank you John. I wanted to visit a friend who was in a hospice. I asked her daughter if I could go. She advised not to, my friend passed away days later. The daughter said she was being looked after, how you describe.
ReplyDeleteMy advice is to always go, unless the patient says otherwise
DeleteThank you. I really wanted to go and see her. She had been really kind to me, we had some meaningful chats. Just to hold her hand for a few minutes would have been nice. Her daughters took over towards the end.
DeleteAnd some relatives need to flex muscles of control
DeleteVery well said John. Your expertise and compassion comes out in everything you write.
ReplyDeleteI have learned a great deal since my separation and my arrival at the hospice
DeleteHow lucky I’ve been
Squire Gray
ReplyDeleteYour email helped but this helped me more.
Matter o fact and
Simple to understand
Thanks to you x
Lee
I have received your gift, naughty! But thank you so much. I’m pleased with this post
DeleteBeautifully written JG, I was lucky my Mum passed in a Hospice, it still brings me great comfort now X
ReplyDeleteAnd now I hear a dozen hospices in the uk are making redundancies due to financial problems
DeleteI was with my 56 year old mum when she was admitted to hospital in 1991 - The nurses refused to give her pain relief until a Dr was present - Mum pleaded for help - I begged the nurses at their desk on the ward - I heard the death rattle soon after and her poor body arched and she was gone - the crash team and Dr dramatically raced in with trolley etc - Too late x
ReplyDeleteI’m sorry for acute nurses who legallly cannot give medication unless it has been prescribed by a doctor
DeleteVery graphic flis - her body arched etc. - please remember when commenting that there are readers here who have recently suffered a loss.
Delete🚩.
DeletePlease explain why you have given the comment a red flag flis.
DeleteEnough eh
DeleteYes enough Fliss, such a graphic description is upsetting to others and not needed
DeleteYou're unbelievable Fliss
Delete🚩 I am traumatised by my mum's death - and you "anon" are cruel to attack me even about her death.
DeleteWhile I'm sorry you've suffered a bereavement you woiuldn't get pinpointed by Anon if you weren't so stupid, replying to their comments and encouraging their replies. Also that's despite being warned by John not to do so.
Delete🚩"Debby" - Calling me "Stupid" is abusive - I have flagged when I'm being attacked.
DeleteA compassionate post hijacked by the attention seeking flis. Shame on you flis
DeleteMy beautiful kind mother died horrifically - You cruel cruel woman 🚩🚩(eh!)
DeleteAdvice to fliss - steer clear of posting comments on blogs to avoid the trauma of reading comments and replying to comments.
DeleteSorry for your loss.
Telling me to clear off are you "eh"🚩
DeleteWhatever. Eh.
DeleteThis is an accurate description but it pales, doesn't it, when actually watching your loved one die. I sat with my mom in hospice. I was glad to do so but I would never want my kids to watch me die. When my mom first arrived she knew that I was there (she had had a terrible stroke); she went downhill fast, thankfully. I will never forget the kindness of her nurses, especially Mel. Comforting w/out being maudlin. The sounds and colors of walking outside w/my mom's body to the funeral home's van are forever etched in my brain.
ReplyDeleteThis is often the quandary I see in hospice work . The patient not wanting loved ones to be present and loved ones needing to be there .
DeleteSo often a patient will pass away when their relatives have gone for a pee or gone home for a shower
One of my sons and I had left the room for a short nap leaving my other son sitting with my husband. Son dozed off, woke realizing something was different. My husband had waited till it was quiet and passed away. BTW I think your description accurate, having witnessed quite a few deaths.
DeleteMy father, being looked after by only us 3 children, aged 12, 17 and 19, at home, went through a period of confusion, thinking we were people from his youth. Very distressing for us. No hospice care then. A long time ago. I recognise all that you have written.
ReplyDeleteThe agitation stage can be ridden without meds but it’s exhausting and distressing . Meds make things so much easier for the patient , for the relatives and for the nurses
DeleteJohn, this was so helpful to read. I was present as my father in law took his last breath, and we all watched in sort of confused surprise, even though he was in a hospice home; it was like we almost couldn't believe it. The nurses there were as you, angels and so very respectful and kind. You all know that the last memories of someone are important, as they stay with you for a lifetime.
ReplyDeleteSo many times the relatives just know that their loved one has died, you just need to validate this gently
DeleteVery well written. I was present for my first death a few weeks ago, withdrawal of life support after four weeks in intensive care. Once the decision was made it was calm and respectful. Careful medication and a peaceful and swift death, I watched the monitors all go to "0". I have been working on trying to write about the experience.
ReplyDeleteThe monitors in my experience should have either been turned off or muted , only to be seen by the nurses behind the nurse station
DeleteThe 0 monitor is something of tv and cinema and should be a rarity in the clinical situation
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThank you for this.
ReplyDeleteYou are welcome louise
DeleteWell-written. In modern day Britain, we tend to mask death in secrecy but it's nothing to be afraid of. It happens to us all.
ReplyDeleteYes well noted too much secrecy
DeleteHonesty and compassion from you as always John. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteThank u Thelma
DeleteThank you for that John. I was with my mother when she died, but, sadly not with father. I know my mother knew I was there, and I'm sure that made her more relaxed. Father was suddenly moved to another hospital without my knowing, so I wasn't able to be with him. I'm rather sad about that.
ReplyDeleteYes, it’s important to have relatives on site , for their sake
DeleteThank you for this John. Question: how much do you explain to the patient?
ReplyDeleteEverything if they want to know, sometimes just the. Basics of being pain free and symptom controlled
DeleteA very accurate description of my husbands last five days. His agitation was the hardest thing for me to deal with. Then he begged for MAID for which he was approved, but by then it was the weekend and I was told that he would not be able to approve it on Monday. He was put on heavy duty meds and I was told he would now not know what was happening. I went home and died on Sunday morning. He did not want me to see him die and his last words were I love you. I knew when he stopped eating and drinking and heard the death rattle that the end was close. His death was just as you described. Thank you John, it will help many to understand. Gigi
ReplyDeleteI’m glad it’s been helpful Gigi
DeleteOh, John. Such a timely post. My 91 yr old mama passed 2 days ago. I would describe the weeks prior as fading. She faded away. Just as you described becoming weaker, more despondent, unable to take solids then flds orally. I was lying beside her when she took her last breath. She just quit breathing. Being a nurse in my working life, I am not a death virgin. My favorite times nursing were the comings & goings with birth & death.
ReplyDeleteI’m glad this post wasn’t too painful, I’m mindful several readers are grieving at the moment
DeleteI’m glad you lay next to your mom
I always tell student nurses to remember just how important it is to suggest a loved one cuddle their relative in bed or in another bed pushed together.
Mona, I am so very sorry for your loss.
Delete--Frances (from Cheryl's blog)
So many of us will benefit from this informative post TQ.
ReplyDeleteI wasn't with my Mum at her end, although had been visiting a couple of days before and knew I wouldn't see her again. My eldest sister was able to be with Mum for Mum's last breath which was comforting for us all.
Alison in Wales x
Also we need to use other ways to include family,move used iPads and my phone even for a relative to “ see” what’s going on
DeleteThat was terrific John. Our standards would be similar here and it is gratifying to know how death is handled by professional carers.
ReplyDeleteIt must of been a raw read for you andrew
DeleteThe first time I was with a friend who died, it seemed very much the opposite of labor to me. I've had four children myself and been at many births. It's a process that most of us go through and there are stages that lead up to, in one case, another human being in the room, or in the other case, one less human being in the room. We come from there to here, we go from here to there.
ReplyDeleteA nice way of looking at the whole process
DeleteWe forget the normality of it all
Thank you John for that clear explanation. I have never seen anyone die and have never seen a dead body. My dad passed away a month into the start of the first lockdown. He went into hospital alone in the ambulance and died alone without his family. We weren't allowed in to see him afterwards. I do know that a nurse sat with him in his final hours and I can't adequately express the gratitude I have for that wonderful person. Nurses are angels xxx
ReplyDeleteWe have a support worker called Diane who will often just sit with a patient when they may be alone at EOL it’s a beautiful thing to watch , and I love her for it
DeleteMany good thoughts for Diane. Sounds like she is an angel on Earth.
DeleteThank you for this. I really think the process of death should be introduced and normalized to people early in life, in an age appropriate manner, so it is not denied so much.
ReplyDeleteI agree, it should be talked about in schools
DeleteThis was very interesting and educational. I have never been present when someone has passed and I hope that I never am. Even as old as I am, I do not deal with the process of dying. I know it can be different for each of us, or very similar to others. Then there is my dad, who despite being in hospice, then the nursing home, would have moments of not "feeling his best", would rally so much so, that we purchased fresh undershirts and a new shaver for him, thinking he has the potential of being with us for several more months. He even had the nursing home staff and the hospice nurse fooled. The Monday, after our visit over the weekend, he died while being transferred from his wheelchair to his favorite chair, in his room. No sound. Nothing. He was there and then he wasn't. It was so quickly that the nurses had barely registered what had happened. One of the younger nurses was quite traumatized, as she, like everyone else, thought all was well and had chatted with him as she pushed his wheelchair down the hallway. Maybe you have developed an insite that these nurses have yet to have, but he shocked each of us. Maybe it was partially because he never complained about anything. He was loved by everyone and would get so many visitors, they had to arrange a schedule. (the assisted living facility, that he had been living, is attached to the nursing home so many fellow residents would visit him, along with staff) I appreciate that you share your knowledge and experiences. It does help. Ranee (MN) USA
ReplyDeleteYour father probably had a stroke or cardiac event , we have those too .
DeleteHaving said this I ALWAYS warn relatives on a vigil that the moment they may leave the room their relative may die. I think this is innate and a primeval desire to hide away alone to die.
Very valuable thankyou John. Kath x
ReplyDeleteXx
DeleteThank you John, clear and informative.
ReplyDeleteYou are very welcome , it is a passion of mine
DeleteWell done and accurate. Death is not usually painful, but a slipping away of the soul. It's a normal part of life, just as birth and illness are. The worst deaths, in my mind, are the codes, the resuscitations in a room filled with strangers, and compressions, and broken ribs, and blood. The family is hustled out and doctors, nurses, and respiratory techs fill the room. Death, in my opinion, should be peaceful, and the room should be filled with those you love, not strangers.
ReplyDeleteYes pixie
DeleteI hated all that, and that awful time cleaning up the detritus before the family was brought in
Brave, warm, honest and committed to honesty as usual. I have been with several relations (grandfather, father husband etc as they died, all quietly, naturally as possible and without trauma. Nothing to be frightened of, helpful to witness when dealing with the grief of the process. Have always been with my animals when it has been their time, and also have always had the others pets with us when this has happened. Your animals have feeling too and if their owner and fur siblings are with them, all are calm and reassured. The least we can do for all we love. There needs to be less fear and avoidance when death approaches, to help all concerned.
ReplyDeleteHome deaths used to be the norm , we’ve gone too far making it all aseptic
DeleteThank you for this, John. I was present when my father died forty years ago, but it was at home and basically an emergency situation--so not as peaceful as one would have liked. Right now, I am periodically caring for my 92 yr old FiL (bless my SiL--a nurse--who lives close by and does the lion's share of caretaking for him and our 86 yr old MiL--I am 2500 miles away, so fly in every other month). He is extremely afraid of dying, as is my MiL. It is very hard to even discuss it with them. But, I have printed out your compassionate and straightforward words and will keep it with me--hoping there will be a time when they are able to hear them and, hopefully, be comforted by them.
ReplyDeleteMary
DeleteFear is not always just a psychological issue, sometimes it can manifest because of physical issues so may respond to medication too
Mary
DeleteFear is not always just a psychological issue, sometimes it can manifest because of physical issues so may respond to medication too
I was with my husband in the hospice in the last days of his life - we were not supported well on that last day , and I was told that he would not die that day as it was not “ in the handover”. No familiar staff on duty , no translation of some medical language despite me asking - and at one point made to leave his room whilst the agency nurse “ tidied him up “ - my staying apparently being an impediment to her doing so
ReplyDeleteI wish John that Tony had the support that you describe . He did not , and I can not forgive the hospice staff who let down my husband at his most vulnerable moment
Siobhan
Alas there are always gaps in the service and I’m sorry you suffered them . Continuity is vital at EOL ( end of life) the same nurse ,especially a trusted one can go such a long way to help a family especially by explaining jargon and by re emting problems .
DeleteI often ask wives and husbands to stay and help me turn their loved one , if they want to
And will always encourage them to take over jobs such as passive exercises and mouth care
I’m sorry Siobhan
Thanks for this good explanation, John.
ReplyDeleteKnowing the process removes a little of the fear
DeleteThank you John for that very enlightening post. I observed that with my mother in law and now I understand what was going on. This was a beautiful post.Lini from petaluma
ReplyDeleteMy darling dog had cancer - She was enjoying life until the early hours - Next morning she chose which room and bed - then looked at me - kissed me and I knew her wish - The Vet visited us -Throughout two hours of assistance - My darling was comfortable, happy and helping herself to delicious food as she passed - The Vet was an Angel x
ReplyDeleteThe death of an animal can be just as traumatic as losing a loved person flis
DeleteThis all sounds very familiar, having seen it with both of my parents.
ReplyDeleteYes, some people DO experience death, I do forget that sometime
DeleteThank you so for this honest and detailed description John. My daughter is writing a PhD on end of life care at Aberdeen university. She is being funded by the Scottish govt. She already has a Medical Humanities Masters from the university of Kent in which she studied the legal, medical and humane aspects of end of life care and after that during the Covid years she did a fast-track two-year nursing degree. She’s still only 28 but the kindest most empathetic person I have ever known. I was with my mum when she died peacefully in hospital. She was on the Liverpool Care Pathway, her choice - she was a nursing professional for over 40 years, and my dad died peacefully at home in his sleep. I found him the morning after and I was so fortunate that within 10 minutes of letting myself in (I knew something was not right as soon as I crossed the threshold) the wheels on meals ladies turned up and took charge. We still had to have a post mortem though. My mum always said that being with someone when they die is one of the greatest privileges and I’m so happy I was there with my mum. We had a rocky relationship (two strong-willed opinionated intelligent women are bound to clash) but we also had amazing times too. The ying and yang of life and death My elder brother died of cancer in September 2020. I was not even allowed to visit him and because of the 20 person rule in the crematorium had to go to his funeral by myself. It was one of the saddest days of my life. Thank you for the opportunity to remember these days, you are a good man JG. Sarah in Sussex
ReplyDeleteSarah , thank you for these insights . I agree being present at someone’s death, even a strangers is an honour .
DeleteI haven't yet read the comments, but will, but may be echoing what others have said.
ReplyDeleteI'll add two things from my nursing experiences and family experience.
My FIL was kept at home with hospice care coming almost daily. After he was no longer eating or conscious very often, the skin on his legs, heels, and elbows broke down to the dreaded "bed sores" or medically decubitus ulcers. As a nurse they equal poor nursing care. The hospice nurse assured me that it was due to poor circulation as my FIL neared death and not at all due to poor care. I needed to hear that.
The other thing is what I've observed when patients died during my 40 year nursing career: after death there is a moment when the patient, the person, is gone and the body is definitely empty. Our beliefs about where they've gone, if anywhere, is up to each of us.
Peace and hugs
We still turn patients 2 hourly if necessary to minimise skin breakdown but in my experience, especially at the end of life stage( EOL) some breakdowns are inevitable given the physical conditions you outline. Unfortunately we are governed by the local trust guidelines on skin care. And these breakdowns are reported as they would on a general ward
DeleteA hospice ward is no different to a hospital ward in terms of care, poor treatment can happen on both and skin breakdowns should be reported.
DeleteI agree however i think a different reporting centre may be more appropriate
DeleteHaving now read the comments, I'll say that when a patient is in hospital and dies, unless there are written orders on that patients chart for Do Not Resuscitate, the medical staff is legally obligated to try to save the patient so resuscitate them. Many hospitals now offer hospice care in hospital, so all there are DNR.
ReplyDeleteIf you have a loved one who is very old, very ill, or very badly injured you can ask them ahead of time what they prefer and if it's too late for that, you and your family can decide amongst yourselves (and before your loved one is in an emergency situation) whether to tell the doctor to make sure your loved one is DNR. Don't take No from the doctor either!
You can also make sure your doctor and family have a copy of your "Advanced Directive" about what kind of care you do and do not want in case there is no hope left. This makes sure you have the end you prefer and your family doesn't have to do it.
Peace and hugs
Not all patients in hospice care are DNACPR . Some have not made their own minds up even on one are not ready to) and it is important to note that some other patients may be for escalation of care but not for resus. This means that they may be transferred to an acute facility for treatment for something like a treatable infection or a bone fracture but would not be resuscitated in event of a cardiac arrest
DeleteWell said, John dear.
ReplyDeleteNo false modesty
DeleteI know my stuff
Thanks John. It was as you say...but much faster than expected. Xx
ReplyDeleteYes I’m sorry, this must be incredibly raw for you and the likes of Siobhan x
DeleteSometimes the patient can crash too after arriving on the landing and things can move very quickly
DeleteWith the annual memory of his brother's tragic death which brought depression every year he decided that he had had enough and stopped fighting to be here.
DeleteHe had said that he didn't want to be a burden ...but he never really was...he never really "got old" until then....and he said himself .."I don't like this bit"!...the one thing he never lost was his sense of humour.
The first death I attended (of three) was a 35 year old friend who died of AIDS at home. His dog kept wanting to climb into the bed with him, but after my friend passed, the dog was no longer interested. He sensed that the spirit was gone. I found that rather poignant. My son said when my 8 year old granddaughter died, she opened her eyes, smiled at him, then was gone. He's glad to have that one loving moment in what was a horrible day.
ReplyDeleteSome patients do suddenly rally before the end
Deletevery informative and important post that will provide immeasurable help to many. My first two (and only, so far) end of life experiences were with my parents 8 years ago. Tho I worked in the medical field for 40 years and consoled (I hope) many grieving families.....I had not had first hand experience other than with my end of life animal companions here at home. Thank heavens for the Hospice nurses....who not only informed me every step of the way....but gently and lovingly guided me through the process of my own grieving, but helping my dying parents. Don't know what I would have done without them.
ReplyDeleteSusan M/ Calif.
I work with many talented hospice nurses
DeleteSioned, Helen , Julie, Nia. ….louise….ben, Ruth and Steve
Thank you John for telling us so much we needed to know. It has prompted a long conversation I have just had with my husband. Neither of us are in ill health at the moment but we are both over 70 and have had a useful discussion about "arrangements" we both agree on and are now going this week to communicate our decision to our sons and daughters. We feel contented about having made decisions and have you to thank. X
ReplyDeleteI’m pleased. Always ask questions, always write them down before hand.
DeleteOne thing I would like to say. My Dad was dying at home of cancer and my Mom kept constantly trying to get him to eat. The hospice nurse finally kindly explained to her…..he is not dying because he is not eating….he is not eating because he is dying. I think it made my Mom feel better that she could not get him to take sustenance. Kathy
ReplyDeleteWell put, we used lots of cold stuff, egg custard, ice lollies ice cream
DeleteHaving read your post and some of the comments, I thanked you for your clear and informative post. Having now read more comments and thought about it more, I want to thank Lee for asking the question that prompted your post and all these amazing comments.
ReplyDeleteThank you you Lee.
I too have learned so much today.
DeleteNo jokes
No banter
Leexx
John, I read a book that had similar information to your post and it was so helpful to me as my parents approached the ends of their lives. I don’t know if it is ok to share a title here so will not fret if you remove my comment. It is called -
ReplyDeleteFinal Gifts: Understanding the Special Awareness, Needs, and Communications of the Dying
by Maggie Callanan (Author), Patricia Kelley (Author)
Ive not read it so cannot comment although it’s not too old 2012 so should be up to date research wise
ReplyDeleteLol. Lots of comments on his one, eh? I'll be interested, however briefly, how it happens to me. I expect it'll be in the next year or so.But, I can wait if it takes longer. I've seen a lot of deaths too, John. Most I've seen were much quicker. Thanks for this, my friend.
ReplyDeleteOh my old friend .i would love to be at your bedside and I would salute u
DeleteMy mother had dementia and went on hospice at the
ReplyDeleteend of her life. She refused food and water. The hospice people and her adult family home nurse were angels. I was not with her when she passed. The AFH nurse said she thought Mom was hanging on until her birthday. She passed the day before. When nurse called immediately after my mother died she said she thought people were still aware for a few seconds after passing. She suggested I sing happy birthday to Mom. I’ve never sung that song that well and with so much love in my entire life.
I’ve seen patients “ hang on,” some for a relative to see again, some to meet some predestined anniversary
DeleteThanks for this, John. I sat with my mother as she lay dying, but I had a very strong feeling that she would not pass until I had left her. I said my goodbyes 'knowing' that I would not see her again. A few minutes after I had gone a nurse went in to check on her and found that she had died. I believe that she did not want me to see her final breath.
ReplyDeleteOh Tracy this is incredibly common
DeleteIt happens in the hospice weekly
I wish my father had passed in your hospice John. He died a week ago. The nursing care was appalling. As he was unable to press the buzzer I stayed awake for 29 hours at one point. Turning him, keeping him clean and buzzing for medication. Health care is very stretched here in Oz as I’m sure it is elsewhere.
ReplyDeletePs I’m Jane x
DeleteMy sympathy on the loss of your father, Jane, and I am really sorry the experience was so distressing for you. Hugs.
DeleteYes Jane , how awful for you
DeleteYou did what you could
Well done you
Well done x
Thank you both for your kind and comforting words. Jane xx
DeleteThank you Lee and John. I will add that I belong to an organization in the U.S. called Compassion and Choices and highly recommend them as a resource. - Jackie
ReplyDeleteSomething I will research x
DeleteThank you John, and Lee. Information about the changes, and stages, help us cope. I nursed my mother 35 years ago at her home, as she died of Pancreatic cancer - a month from diagnosis to death! - and the hospice nurses were superb, ringing me each day and offering information and support. She died very peacefully, with me right by her side. My father wasn't coping and had taken a turn around the garden - I think she chose to go while he was away. Again, thank you.
ReplyDeleteI want to go in my front room , on a bed next to the open window
DeleteMy dogs and cats around me
You read it here people
I doubt it will happen
Thank you John (and Lee) for that explanation. I watched my mother go through this (with no agitation) , but was told she wasn’t unconscious, as her pupils reacted to light. I will never know if and when she actually did lose consciousness but the aides, nurses and I acted as if she could still hear till the end. I didn’t get a name for this 3 day stage, and wish I asked at the time. She still reacted to pain in her final hour, but fortunately it was a brief moment when she had to be moved. Olivia
ReplyDeleteMost patients are deeply unconcious however hearing is the last sense to be affected so you all did right talking to your loved ones
DeleteJohn- I have read before that hearing is the last sense to go and I wonder how is that known? - Jackie
DeleteI think it comes from testomnies from intensive care patients who may be incredibly poorly and are sedated .theyve often reported they could hear nurses talking to them
DeleteGot it - thanks - Jackie
DeleteJohn Gray, within this single entry, all tge comments and responses, is any and every reason for your blog to exist to show how much help and support it gives to so many - and what a wonderful group your whole Going Gently family are.
ReplyDeleteReading through this post is very moving for so many reasons, from the heart and honesty of the contributors to the compassion care and advice of our favourite nurse and super soul. And so interesting, too, to see no nasty comment from you know who. Who I would hope sees this and weeps with regret and for healing for her curdled soul.
As usual it’s the commentators that lead with the more interesting and moving stories
DeleteWe are all the same are we not, my video of today underlines this fact beautifully and with so much sad power
As usual it’s the commentators that lead with the more interesting and moving stories
DeleteWe are all the same are we not, my video of today underlines this fact beautifully and with so much sad power
I was lucky to be with both my parents as they passed, my dad at hospice and my mum in a nursing home under hospice care. They both were able to die easy thanks to the awesome hospice nurses and drs. Thank you for your post , something we should all be taught and talked about with our lived ones hopefully before our time comes.
ReplyDeleteThank you poppy
DeleteI wasn't with him, when my father died, but I was in the house. He was suffering from throat cancer, and was receiving hospice care at home. One evening the nurse who was administering morphine every day said something simple to my mum, such as "I think it's time, don't you?" and my mum agreed. I believe that evening he had perhaps an extra dose of morphine, as that was the night he died. It was so caringly and gently done. Bless that nurse.
ReplyDeleteBless that nurse.
DeleteIt may. Not be what you think , sometimes pecribed meds given judiciously allows a patient to stop fighting difficult symptoms
DeleteThank you for asking the question Lee, and thank you for answering it so clearly John. I have been at the bedside of quite a few relatives now as they took their last breath, and will no doubt be doing it again very soon. It's always good to have things explained so well though.
ReplyDeleteTaboo chat , taboo chat
DeleteIt's understandable why Weaver chose you to be the one that is contacted when she passes so you can let all of us know.
ReplyDeleteI’m sure her son will let me and us know ..I hope he remembers
DeleteBut let’s remember it’s will be a terribly sad time for him to tick every box
DeleteThank you for the very apt and sensible explanation. It is nothing to fear. To be with your loved ones as they are departing is a great honor.
ReplyDeleteIt is , with the right support
DeleteI'd highly recommend "with the end in mind" by Kathryn Mannix, a wonderful book that I wish I'd read many years ago
ReplyDeleteA few copies for tge hospice may be useful
DeleteThank you (and Lee) for this post. My friend sent me the link this morning. I, too, am a 'death virgin'. My husband is in a assisted living facility dying of advanced Alzheimer's and congestive heart failure. He is receiving care from a very knowledgeable, kind and compassionate hospice team. I am praying that he lives to see his 93rd birthday on Sep. 13 and that I be given the privilege of being with him when he dies, God willing.
ReplyDelete--Frances in Pennsylvania (USA)
I took time to read this all through and everyone's personal story was so interesting. Thank you so much, and to John for the most helpful description of what happens just before and during the death process that I have come across.
ReplyDeleteThank you for sharing that very clear and honest account John, knowledge is so important, otherwise fear of the unknown can just take over. I sat with my Mum, my Auntie, my husband and my Dad and I count myself lucky to have been given that privilege.They saw me into life and I was able to walk them all the way to the door. Losing my husband was particularly hard as he was on a ventilator during the pandemic, no visitors until the very end but I could still hold his hand and talk to him as he took his last breath. My Dad was also in another hospital dying from covid at the same time, also no visitors, so I went straight from one bedside to the other. And now I’ve just made myself cry writing that. My sister is a hospice nurse, I am so in awe of the job you all do, thank you so much. Julie
ReplyDeleteI wish you had been my dads nurse John, your explanation of what happens, happened exactly to my dad, except for the very noisy breathing which was extremely distressting to hear and lasted several hours. No one explained that this was normal and it was so awful to witness. You have such lovely compassion, anyone who is nursed by you is extremely lucky. Please keep writing your blog as it such a joy to read.
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