Group Pressure and Church

There is a pub trip planned for my work colleagues tomorrow. 
Beers and an important rugby game.
I’m glad I’m at work.
The pub trip I can do, but watching competitive games generally don’t  catch my imagination as much as most and the tribal and verbal part of supporting my hometown is somewhat lost on me.

Am I repressed or am I not swayed by the crowd ? 
I suspect it’s a bit of both if the truth were known.
Anyhow, like I said , I’m glad not to be there
I wouldn’t pretend to be interested in who made which try 
And that can dampen the atmosphere sometimes I concede.
And I don’t really drink during the day…an anathema to many sporting fans I know.

I’ve never screamed my head off watching a concert, or laughed hysterically at a comedy gig
Though I have got quite giddy at a great play, or the ballet when the mood has taken me.

I’m not one for pretending to pray in Church either.
During prayers I keep my head up, and listen politely .
I find the pretence of praying much worse than doing nothing.
During my brother’s funeral, the vicar gave me a “ look” when my head didn’t bob with the others
I didn’t look away.

Speaking of Church. 
Yesterday I received word that the Bishop has made the final decision that our Village Church is to close. 
Our request for it to become a pilgrim Church has failed also which surprised me somewhat as I thought we had put up a robust argument for its change of status.
We await official news of what will happen to the building itself and the glebes which border it. 
The fields will be sold I am sure . The building’s future will be difficult to gauge given the fact that it houses a cemetery which is in use by the village population.  
We will wait and see……

Hattie’s painting of St Michaels & All Saints







83 comments:

  1. For me church is wherever and whenever I want make it. God does not care where you are or when you need him. You can reach him at anytime. Those are intimate moments that need not be shared with anyone. When I do go into a church it is not during service. I like/enjoy when there is no one there. The silence has a way of settling your heart and mind. It can be a great place for reflection and letting your troubles slip away.

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    1. Totally agree.

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    2. I get this tex, but I want the building saved as a historic piece of the village ,

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  2. Chapels tend to become auction houses, and churches turned into homes, but it would be odd to have folk bringing flowers for the graves of their 'departed'.

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    1. Yes, a home with a working graveyard in situ

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  3. Sad that your pilgrim church bid failed x

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  4. Balls? According to one of the most delicious gay guys I have ever had the mixed fortune to meet (he is gay) gays don't do balls. Throwing a ball, chasing one, is, apparently, anathema to the species.

    U

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    1. Gareth Thomas and Craig Maxwell- Keys would like a word

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    2. Annie9:05 am

      Well said Mrs.L from the Mum of a burly rugby playing GAY son.

      Ursula you do spout rubbish! Check your facts first!

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    3. Annie, my facts are that aforementioned friend related his insight, and aversion to anything ball, to me - in a rather witty way. No need to jump down my throat on what is only anecdotal evidence (as is John's) not an in-depth study of all ball players' sexuality.

      U

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    4. I think camp men have the stereotype of being cack handed
      Of course this doesn’t apply to most beefy rugger players

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  6. Oh how very sad. It is annoying when a "local" body or otherwise disagrees with the people it is going to affect the most. I am not with the in crowd either John. I detest parties with a passion, can count the concerts I have been to on 1 hand and hate most sport. But I also have to add I don't do art, ballet or opera... I am not entirely sure where I fit in the scheme of things.

    Jo in Auckland

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  7. What a disappointment for the village, and now more uncertainty...
    I'm with you on the sport thing. I think I've only ever watched one football match - the 1966 World Cup, on TV! I'd rather spend my time wandering round an art gallery, museum or antiques centre. Still, it would be a boring old world if we all liked the same thing. xx

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    1. Indeed….I do find the mindless following of some supporters, ( especially in football) almost bordering of brainwashing

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  8. Sorry to read about the church - does this mean the graveyard will also be closed to new burials?

    My husband has warned me he is disappearing for the afternoon to watch rugby. I'm guessing it's a big match of some kind.

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    1. I don’t think so andi, but who knows

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  9. I am saddened and disapointed by the Bishop's decision- I hope the outcome for The Church and The Village evenutually shall be a kindly one x

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  10. I would like to live in a church. I would keep the graveyard tidy and welcome visitors to bring flowers

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    1. I doubt it would bought as a dwelling, the churchyard behind it needs constant access

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  11. I’ve tried over the years to enjoy team sports, but it’s never worked for me. (Although ruggers can at least be pleasant to look at.) I hope the church finds a new and good purpose that keeps it a part of village life in some way.

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    1. Mitchell, on my arrival in England (for good) I knew nothing of Rugby. One of my colleagues,and later friend, casually mentioned, apropos of nothing, that he was a "Hooker". To me hooker meant only one thing. Well, I said to him, it's one way of earning money outside the day job. Since he was/is a looker it didn't seem far fetched.

      Another guy in the office couldn't have been more different to the Hooker (in stature and looks - and roughness; nice guy though) - yes, a Forward in his local team.

      Someone once told me that Rugby players are also known as "bottom sniffers". This in reference to the "scrum" - you know, when, by way of male bonding, they bend over into a human ball(!) arms over shoulders before kicking the ball out of each other.

      U

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    2. Ooo er x

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    3. Strangely, A term new to me

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  12. Oh no! Not good news about the church. Whether people are religious or not they are places where past generations up to the present have sought quiet, reflection, and solace. I do hope it's not sold off to be converted into someone's 'designer' house. I would have thought the 14th century preaching cross in the churchyard as a listed monument would be a deterrent, and hopefully the graves of the recently departed. A use as a Quaker meeting place might be more apt - or a referral to the Friends of Friendless Churches who might take it on. I like old churches - their history and architecture. I must also admit to a penchant for what's called non-league football and sitting in an old stand made of corrugated iron on a worn wooden bench watching local teams play on a Saturday afternoon when boredom takes hold. If I'm honest, it's probably because of the old tin stand and because the ground is in a charming rural setting, rather than the game itself. That and the quiet bonhomie of the few others watching. However, as I've been Poleaxed by Covid again (despite one previous bout and three vaccinations) I shan't be watching any match, nor examining misericords and tympanums today. An old book is the only thing I'll be doing today.

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    1. Get well soon dear P
      I will sit in the church next week m just sit and think

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    2. Anonymous10:23 pm

      Mr. Gray,

      Sitting in the church next week to sit and think sounds like contemplative prayer. While there will always be other places to do this, how disappointing that your community I'd losing one filled with the remembrances of those who went before.

      Living next to the cemetery has its advantages - the neighbors are quiet and people are just dying to get in.

      I hope for your sake that it does not become a nightclub or discotheque.

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    3. Perhaps I pray on my own terms mz anon

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  13. Hopefully the church may still end up being something for the community

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  14. Interesting. Maybe the bishopric needs money.

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  15. Rugby players can be a fun bunch to people watch, but that is not what most of the crowd is there for, I can't imaging sitting in a crowded stadium today.

    It would be nice if the church could end up as a community building, you need a wealthy patron to buy it for the community. I would think the cemetery would make it a hard sell for conversion to a home.

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  16. You don't like watching rugby? All those beefy men piling on top of each other?

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  17. I prefered my men tall and slim-no muscle man for me please x

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    1. Oh no give me a rugger player build anyday

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  18. The churches around my way are not as historic or pretty as yours but there is pain when they close. Always pain.

    People like churches but don't join church communities so they eventually die.

    John, you have loved that church to bits: cleaned it, sat in it, farewelled friends in it. I'm sorry it's being taken from you

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    1. I still feel some home about it’s eventual future, watch this space

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  19. Oh dear, so sorry that the Village Church will close. It's the end of an era.

    I don't pretend to pray either.

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  20. I have watched a lot of sports in my life as I had children participating in a variety of games. I think if you know someone in the game, you get more excited about it. TV sports don't really appeal to me as they drag on with lots of commercials and too much commentating!
    Too bad about your church building.

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    1. I get that Ellen and I had followed a basketball team in Sheffield ,many years ago which I got quite giddy about , I’d forgotten

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  21. I never close my eyes during prayers either and I have discovered that a great many people keep their eyes open too.
    It is sad about the church in that it has been part of the village for so long but in a way, heartening to know that people are falling away from religion. I admit I am very, very cynical about organized religion.

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  22. Such a beautiful little church - and such a lot of money the church commissioners have - and invest - and the chances are it will be sold to 'convert' into a cottage or something. Why can't it just be retained and maintained to beautify and enhance the village and keep the piece of hallowed ground for those who rest there?

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    1. There’s a lot more money to be had in little parish plots of land , glebe sand the like

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  23. I recommend reading Quiet by Susan Cain - it explains much about life.

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    1. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Quiet-Power-Introverts-World-Talking/dp/0141029196/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3QS7M0KR4KGZX&keywords=Quiet+susan+cain&qid=1644080587&sprefix=quiet+susan+cain%2Caps%2C70&sr=8-1

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    2. this arrived 2 days ago and hopefully I can read it in week coming

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  24. Barbara Anne3:05 pm

    What a shame the bishop decided to close the village church. What in heaven's name could he have been thinking? Love Hattie's painting of the church and Weave's idea is just perfect. Shall we all email the bishop?!
    We've never been sports fans, rabid or otherwise, so I'd be pleased to be scheduled to work, too.

    Hugs!

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    1. Money is what he’s been thinking f babs

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    2. Barbara Anne5:33 pm

      I once read "Don't be so heavenly minded that you're no earthly good."
      Methinks the bishop is wrong headed if money was the reason for his decision.

      Hugs!

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  25. Every year, we take turns with another couple hosting supper and watching the Super Bowl. I am not a sports fan, but neither is the wife in the other couple, so it makes for a nice chinwag. I have never understood screaming like a maniac at games or concerts or anything for that matter. This will make me sound like a snob, but to me, being in the middle of behavior like that is distasteful. Praying. I used to pray all the time. Now, I never pray at all. I miss it, that sense that there was someone bigger than myself to hand off to when the going got rough. I'm sorry about your church though. Even as an unbeliever, I know that it does bring pain to others, and that makes me sad. JayCee who keeps a blog recently moved into a church that had been made over. The graves are still there, but the tombstones were made into a garden of remembrance which is maintained by them and open to the public.

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    1. Debby, I get that, and I think I don’t like being “one of the crowd “if that makes sense

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    2. It certainly makes semse. Good sense too.

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  26. Like you, I'm not a big sports fan and have never gotten caught up in the plays on the field and the screaming fan hysteria. The fate of your village church is disappointing. Religion does not play heavily in lives today. Many seem to have lost interest in attending church. In my opinion, church leadership has lost touch with reality and the needs of people.

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    1. On a positive note my field has been taken over , albeit shorter, by my friend

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  27. I am so sorry about your lovely church. I hope something good comes in to use the building.

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  28. I find rugby too rough a game for my likes. The almost animal / tribal ways too much. Such a shame about the church. I work in an estate agents and we get quite few to sell. We have actually sold one in another one of our offices with graves, the new owner had to allow access for relatives and I understand tend the area.

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    1. I love rugby supporters though Lisa who universally seem rather more good humoured than their footballing counterparts

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  29. I wonder if at the watching party you couldn't fin another party goer , such as your self that would like to take a stroll or have a conversation aside somewhere?
    I know it takes a load of money but someone could buy it? to refurbish it into a home.
    I have probably been watching to much ESCAPE TO THE COUNTRY , haven't I ?

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    1. There’s a few options non of them satisfactory as a pilgrim church …

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  30. Could the village apply to get it changed to a cultural centre? With a go fund me page to buy the property for the village and future generations. Gallery space? Plays, book readings. Lots of organisations struggle very much trying to find buildings they can meet in. It could be run as a charity? an instagram account to raise awareness that you would love to save it. Tag all the people you can to highlight it and hope they repost. there will be many people in other countries that will identify as having Welsh ancestry. Crowd funding with people donating X amount. I dont know I am just waxing here "Buy a brick/stone for £x" have you name engraved here as being a saviour of the church. maybe do it as a pilgrims place to stay as a community. Air BnB it. Is there a kitchen and toilet in there? "Win the chance to sleep a night in a Welsh church". Lots of things you could do. What about the National Lottery fund?

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    1. when I mean tag, I mean people like Tony Robinson, Kate Williams, Lucy Worsley, Dan Snow, Neil Oliver, Huw Edwards... You could also have a tshirt to sell one with Zombies, dogs and scotch eggs. Sell it on one of the charity websites to get the money to help buy it. there also must be grants for the community to try and secure.

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    2. Some good ideas there sol, and several that a few of in the village have discussed over the past few months
      I think once “ official” news re the closer is public then we can convene a meeting

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    3. Also now I am fired up as this type of $£!7 really gets on my nerves that they just say no. I found this but it is on the Church of England website... maybe it is the same in Wales

      https://www.churchofengland.org/resources/churchcare/advice-and-guidance-church-buildings/sharing-your-building-and-finding

      Heck even if you dont do it for the church I think it is about time you had something that paid back. Slogans on some cups "Bucket of Coffee, type of day". the tshirt. there are people that would buy them and you would get a little kick back. think of it as payment for all the years you have blogged and given us all something to think about and comment on. Could go towards your bathroom!

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    4. There is also the thing about the choirs. Lots of people are really into listening. if people cant attend do it on the net. They sign in to watch and pay a small fee. And as they click through try and get them to buy something. Dont forget if you can get it as a charity people from the uk can add gift aid. that is an extra 25p for every pound I think. Free money! Surely the church would give the community first refusal on buying the church. Heck, hit up Dawn French, ask her to do a quick, help this village church! who knows she might do it, she was very nice when I met her on the beach and got completely tongue tied.

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    5. Dr Emma Wells wrote about pilgrims in the UK. here is her instagram

      https://www.instagram.com/wells_emma/

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    6. last one I promise
      https://www.instagram.com/churchesconservationtrust/

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  31. that is very sad news about the church. i really thought the pilgrim church idea would win. but, if money is what they want, then only a sale will do. i hope it ends up being a positive change for the village. otherwise, it is just too sad.

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    1. I did too, I feel slightly on the back foot now…time for more action me thinks

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  32. Tamsin9:43 pm

    We live in a converted church! Small country village, we converted the church keeping it as close to it's origins as we could and from the outside it hardly looks any different. We don't own the graveyard but keep it tidy, no burials now as it's full but there are still relatives who visit the graves. The villagers have to travel further to worship but the coffee mornings that they held weekly in the church continue in our kitchen! There's usually 9 or 10 come every week, we provide the tea and coffee and they bring the home baking. We occasionally get visitors strolling round the graveyard and they're welcome to a cup of tea too and quite often the use of the loo! Hopefully your church will get a considerate owner and love and respect the building as much as we do ours.
    Lovely blog by the way.

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    1. Tamsin
      Thank you for that , it’s encouraging x

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  33. Good for you: about sports, drinking and praying. Right on all counts.

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  34. I love Hattie's painting. It's beautiful x

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  35. Sorry to hear that the bishop has in his divine wisdom repelled the village petition. Maybe it's time to bash the bishop.

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