"I'll admit I may have seen better days,
but I'm still not to be had for the price of a cocktail,
like a salted
I do have sympathy for these poor people but they can't all come to Europe.it is a massive problem that requires a global response.
I guess that all people wanting to escape their homeland for whatever reason all get lumped into the same group. My heart aches for those in genuine fear for their lives.
I have not heard anyone call them "scum" but maybe I have not been listening. I have heard many saying they should "keep out and go home", which would seem sensible advice to any would be illegal immigrant anywhere in the world. Staying at home would certainly avoid the predicament illustrated. Who do you feel is responsible for that child's predicament?
Staying at home may get your family killed in some parts of the world hence the reason they risk all to start again somewhere new.
And your policy would be what Jenni? Let everyone in who want to come? Your scenario about families at risk may apply to some but most that I have heard interviewed admit they are simply economic (and illegal) migrants making the journey through choice not for safety.
I think i hinted in my text that the solution is not easy and by implication the " cause" is not as clear cut as we think..... I think, im just overwhemed with the sadness of the entire situation
I think I am generally just overwhelmed at how much of the sadness of the whole human situation in general, not just this issue, is caused by humans at the points of each crisis origin who seemingly cannot be reached or touched with reason or compassion. I don't know the answer but I think I know that some things are definitely not the answer, and saying "come on in folks, welcome, here's a home, here's some money, roll up roll up come on in" (I paraphrase an attitude there) is not the answer to this particular issue, I suggest.
Better information perhaps? Too many get told that there's a job and flat waiting for refugees...they then risk their life to stay at a detention camp at best. So sad because I think if they had a choice they'd stay at home and some forget that.
Some deserve our sympathy and our arms open in welcome. Others are just fortune hunters wanting a better life and should be repelled. Legitimate asylum seekers should claim asylum when they first enter the European Union. Typically the highly paid idiots in Brussels and Strasbourg failed to plan ahead and develop an EU-wide response to this crisis. And I am worried about Germany. The flood is so great there that vile responses may in time follow.
It is so sad. The picture breaks my heart. It must be really bad where they are coming from to go through that. Governments need to step it up on other governments to help the desperate ones. I often think of Jordan and the masses they have had to take in. Where are all the aid agencies and religious organizations?
A very hot issue world-wide. Our guvmint describes them as 'economic migrants' and implies that there is no other reason for their desperate attempts to come here. Which shames me. I wish I knew what the solution was.
Where are the really desperate ones from? The ones who are just trying to stay alive? Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan. Who is responsible for destabilising their very existence? We are. We - all of Europe - have a duty to take them - the real ones. If they could swim to fucking America, they would.You cannot make a film like Schindler's List without making comparisons. We are due for a genuine war again. A war which has to be fought - and it was started with Bush's stupid 'war against terrorism', not just 9/11.
Agree with you about past European interventions Tom, but how are you going to identify your "real ones"? Just asking them isn't going to work and most of all kinds will probably arrive in just the clothes they stand in and no proof of identity or even country of origin. I'm looking to hear suggested solutions, but the solution of welcoming all as some seem to wish just makes more take the risk.
Good response, I'm with you on this one. And 'fucking America' should be there helping.
Tom..... this is from FUCKING AMERICA handle you own problems and stop asking us to help !From WW1 on all we see and hear in AMERICA is help me help me.If there is any dirty work it is always send in the AMERICANS.You can take over now.Answer you own problems. From reading your comments on Johns blog your are a rather pain in the butt who has a lot to say but no answers.
Actually veryangryparsnip, it was not Tom who said America should help, it was Should Fish More, who is apparently from Montana. (By the way, I don't think America should help me, and I have no idea whether Tom is a pain in the butt or not, just clearing up an issue here).
Now there is an angry parsnip. I think that we have been helping America for the last 70 years, in terms of supporting them in stupid and useless wars. Personally, I don't want the US 's help if it means signing up to trade deals for almost a century, you selfish and arrogant person, you.
Anyway, the dollar is fucked and the euro is going the same way. More dust bowls coming up, more farmers to feed.
Should Fish More is American, but obviously one of the more moderate and sensible folk of that nation.Angryparsnip seems to have a rather inflated idea of America's global importance, as apparently no-one is able to sort anything out without the help of 'the colonials'! John asked for our opinions and ideas, not a vicious diatribe!
Oh Tom... Tom... You will be angering an angry parsnip, and I am not sure that an angry parsnip really needs angering any more. I have rather liked all the Americans I have met but indeed America probably is in big trouble with much more coming, but most Americans just don't quite seem to realise it yet.
Well said Legaleagle
Its an emotive subject.......all told....i feel emotive about it ......i am torn by the humanity of it and torn by wanting my government to do something constructive about it ......I just dont KNOW the answer!
Maybe there isn't an answer John. Everyone always assumes there is some good answer out there. Sadly, nature always does find an answer though, and nature's answers are often not much fun.
I love the American people - like I have always said, don't confuse my disdain for their erstwhile foreign policy with my love for the actual people.When there is no more nonsense to be said, people have to start talking sense - there is nothing else left.John, of course it is emotive, because it involves life and death. My opinion is that this whole, horrible situation has come about because of American foreign 'policy', and the British government's willingness (or obligation) to stick its head up the US's arse.You have to be really stupid to see any other explanation for the world situation as it is now, but I too have no immediate answers.
Yes tom... I see,as I tend to always do, the human aspect of this disaster....... Sometimes i wish i can look at human mister in a more realistic way...as i can when i am at work
At least when you are at work, you are not powerless to do anything about the situation.
Franklin and Winston would have sorted this in an evening, and they would be back on real ships with real clothes, real destinations and real help waiting. The world's attitude sickens me; only our leaders can help. This is more than poor neighbors in Greece can handle, night after night after night after night.
Well said, Joanne.
I can't even begin to wrap my head around the desperation.
it breaks my heart.
It's something we, personally, can't even begin to find a solution for. Whatever measures any European government takes to control migrant flow will be deemed either unacceptable, or not harsh enough, by a large part of the population. It's a tragedy.
The people who organise the shipments and tell the people that they are going to the lands of honey, take money from them, and put them on boats to cross to Europe and then count their money are the scum, not the migrants.
I do agree, and there you may have identified the point at which best to tackle the issue, but the receiving countries are not in much of a position to de so, other than turning boats back a few hundred yards away from point of origin, which is not very realistic (or legal).
Well sais rachel
Right said Fred.
Living in a large country that was founded on immigrants coming to live and be free, I relate to your problem but I also feel like Thank God you / the place you live/the place we live is there for them to get to, to live like every human on this planet should be allowed to live.We have schools in the US where most of the children barely speak English, we have illegals mowing the lawns , working hard in not luxurious conditions, anything to stay here where they are free and not suffering every day . I needed a handman around the garden and pool. someone recommended M. M has turned into a life saver for me, He mows , he gardens . he repairs things and is generally a very sweet and super polite and well mannered man who speaks English but is from another country where he had to go back twice to get his wife and children out.He is never rude, never asks for more money if I ask him to do more work.Our government here, wastes money by the billions every year.I don't know about the UK.But my feeling is ... if people risk their lives and leave the place where they were born and have family .. to find a free and safe life in a country that will allow them to prosper and be well..... then that is just F**King Great !
Re: "in a country that will allow them to prosper and be well"But surely your country does not "allow" that, as they are there illegally and it would be illegal for you or anyone else to employ them? Is that not the case? (a genuine question - maybe I misunderstand your country's law).
All immigrants can stay legally .They have to get papers but if you saw the gazillion people here who are not Anglo Saxon .. . it is easy I guess because there are huge groups of people from everywhere working and living here. My daughter in law is from Japan. To stay legally you get papers and everyone can do that. I lived in Argentina and had to do it . I am a legal resident of Argentina. ( it is easy to misunderstand me lol)
also, I think it might be easy for immigrants to become legal ..unlike Argentina and perhaps the UK .. I never thought I would be an immigrant :)
That is interesting. Do you mean if someone makes it over the fence from Mexico, for example, they can stay just by "getting papers"? I thought I had read about them routinely being rounded up and transported back.
The 'coyotes' or human traffickers in Mexico, charge around $4000. USD and the migrants get 4 chances to come over the border. Many are sent back only to return. Paperwork for citizenship can take up to 10 years to attain. Many families are broken up for years because of this. The migrants are very hard-working but do put a drain on service agencies etc. And, sure seems to be a lot of in-grates and pointing fingers around here. We Yankees love you Brits.
I blame the Daily Mail and all the other toilet paper "newspapers". The lack of humanity shown to these humans is cruel beyond belief. The pure spite that the media show when gloating on the latest number of casualties of this crisis is shocking.
Totally agree. it is hideous ..the righteousness of the hateful .
What exactly do you blame the newspapers for? They report the news, for those interested in finding out something about world news, read a variety of papers if you want. The Guardian had migrants pictured clinging to lorries yesterday. You can learn about the conditions in Eritrea, Nigeria, and follow it up with your own research. Don't blame the newspapers in the UK and I read several different ones and none have ever referred to migrants as scum.
Sadly there is no solution. If we allow these poor souls to stay then even more will come. If we turn them away then we are cruel and heartless. A war is brewing and it won't solve anything.
As much as I do what I can, I and we can,t help everyone. I live in Edinburgh, we have poverty , tourists Don,t see. I don,t have much, but every week bake 10 loaves make a huge pot of soup and stovies. Give it to the local church who distribute it at lunch time.Sad our country has come to that!.
What a kind and generous thing to do x
Lisa no, just paying forward.
Admit was hurt by my sister, arrived with 2 precious nieces, asshole husband, ate everything I cooked for them, had pristine duvets towels etc, I slept on the sofa.Lodger has the spare room.Sis actually said, I love coming here as we pay for nothing!.Was so hurt, but she doesn't see that!She bought a mulberry bag for £1000. Flip I have a backpack cost £12.Guess as a nurse other things matter!.
I think some problems are just too big to be solvedThey just need to be managedMy head hurts
As my old, black Nanny used to say, "God never deals out anything that you can't handle". How true.
Tell that to the thousands of people who kill themselves each year or the many, many more who die in agony or of thirst and starvation... or does jumping off a building and dying in agony or despair count as "handling"?
My old back nanny?What are you ? A tomand jerry cartoon?
Get Alexander McCall-Smith above. As my old black Nanny would have said, " Aint he got his knickers in a twist!". Twat.
With my knickers completely untwisted I think Tom Stephenson must have very little real experience of what "God" (Nature) deals out to hundreds of thousands of people worldwide ever day. May he never have to learn.
Amen to that.
I worked with a woman who was a "boat person" fleeing Vietnam. She had been well-to-do, escaped with her life and not much else and arrived on US soil, hoping to find a safe place to stay. She had been brought up to speak French and English as well as Vietnamese and worked in a restaurant because it was all she could find. I worked at that restaurant, too, and there were a couple other Vietnamese women who had a similar experience. None really talked about it, all were glad to have made it to the US and were grateful to find a place to stay.A friend of mine hired an Afghani woman to help her with housework. The Afghani woman was trying to learn English so my friend would talk to her and drill her on sentences and phrases to help her. This cleaning lady had been part of a very wealthy family and escaped with her children and almost nothing. She, too, has gone on to rebuild her life.For these people to be leaving in droves they way they are, things must be truly desperate. The ones I've met firsthand who've had to flee weren't scum. Some came from a background of privilege and were used to household staff; only to arrive in a new place and be someone charwoman just to stay alive. It's heartbreaking.
Excellent post, and it's started people talking. The picture in question as you know is a dad of 5 kids who made it to Greece, and was overcome with relief they all made it. My country should shoulder a big part of the help and solution, we almost single-handedly destabilized the region most are coming from.
"We" did not destabilize the region, Bush and especially Cheney did.
With a lot of help from Tony Blair!
John Gray I think the world is a big enough place for everyone xxx
Miss Norm, I'm not so sure about that actually.More specifically, when a country like Greece, already bankrupt, gets thousands of penniless incomers arriving, the practicalities of housing and clothing and feeding and educating and healthcare in one specific location are the issue rather than the general academic "is there room in the whole world overall for everyone?" issue
There is plenty of room in the world for everyone, but Europe is being expected to take far more than a 'fair share'.Australia, America, Canada and others need to wake up and realise that this is a global problem and only a global solution will solve it!
Re: "There is plenty of room in the world for everyone"At what standard of living? At European/US standards of living? I doubt that very much, although by "room" I do mean more than just physical space. Obviously there is physical space aplenty.
Why do you think I mentioned Australia, America and Canada directly.They have physical space aplenty and opportunities for immigrants to advance, but at the moment it seems that Europe are being expected to somehow, miraculously expand our land!
You think all the humans in this finite world, expanding to ever more every day, could have a US/Canadian/European/Australian lifestyle all with nice houses and cars and jobs?
This comment has been removed by the author.
People are unable to put themselves in other people's shoes. Just suppose their own life was being ruined in some way, they moved to another country with better prospects, and the country's residents snarled at them to go back home? They wouldn't like that very much.
Yes nick.......i think im roughing it sitting on the local bus....i havent paid all my savings tosit on a sinking ship starving for a week with just the shirt on my back
The local people probably think they are roughing it sitting next to you John... But seriously... Nick... are you suggesting you, or anyone, should have the right to just enter any country they wish and be taken care of? Sounds nice but does not sound very realistic (but maybe that is not what you are suggesting?)
Im not suggesting that andrew its not realistic.......but the helplessness we all feel is what this blog was originally about......
I was asking Nick, not you John.
Well.......thats telling me! Turning gayIT'S MY FUCKING BLOG,!
For goodness sake people! I was just pointing out that my question was to Nick when It appeared you thought it was addressed to you. I am well aware that whose blog it is. And it is a blog I don't need in my life. Goodbye.
Goodbye and goodnight dearheart x
Oh, I've only just caught up with this conversation! Andrew, I think I'm suggesting something in between outright hostility to people who're just trying to improve their lives, and on the other hand a free-for-all in which anyone can come in to Britain, no questions asked. We need to be a lot kinder and compassionate (how many of us are immigrants ourselves, or the offspring of immigrants?), but at the same time we do need some sort of gatekeeping process to ensure public services can keep up with all the newcomers.
I've tried to do without Going Gently, but I just can't. It's like a drug...
Such an emotive issue. Things will never change in Australia whilst the current government is in power. We also have the issue of when these desperate people are LUCKY enough to make it into OZ waters they are locked up in detention centres and then the mental health problems among all including the children are horrific. What's the answer?
Jennifer the Australian people have it in their power to change this and we are the only ones who do. Our refugee and immigration policies are supported on both sides of parliament and that tells me that politicians are doing what the people want. It is unfortunate that the people are so self obsessed
OMG. America helps the world. Why do we send troops to Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria,if not to support America in their futile wars. Don't even get me started on Vietnam. And then another Bush has delusions of grandeur and wants to be your president. I repeat OMG
America helps America, or at least America tries to help America, and that helps some other countries and damages or destroys or just holds back others; but America helps America, and I am neither blaming nor praising America for that, just commenting).
The world needs to step up! No one nation can shoulder the responsibility. Where is the UN? Let's support Jordan who has taken in over one million refugees. I feel sorry for those countries who up till now have faced the onslaught alone. ISIS needs to be brought down and made to stand trial for crimes against humanity! I will get off of my soapbox now...
I managed to change somebody's opinion entirely by re-posting this photograph yesterday. Ironically, they are against illegal immigrants but they themselves are illegal immigrants in Spain! You couldn't make it up!
Not long for you hannah! Keep in touch..........
The UN Mary A? The UN?! The UN that voted for Libya under Gaddafi to chair the United Nations Human Rights Commission?? I think we must place our hopes elsewhere.
The post was from "Mary A"Cheerio
John, You really did open a can of worms ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... (holding my tongue)
It seems that, world-wide, once we have our piece of the pie it's 'screw you' to everyone else.America, the land of immigrants and their descendants, want to build a wall to keep the neighbours out.Anyone who reads history knows it isn't possible, and it's the places where differing cultures rub up against one another which produce the strongest ideas. But no, we'll all stagnate safely whilst we breed ourselves out of existence; if we don't all starve first due to climate change.Our wars are for acquiring territory and resources these days and instead of electing leaders who work together to solve problems we keep voting in corporate patsies...I should be seeing yellow, my view is so jaundiced.
No your view is like mineJust tired
Yes, I'm tired, but isn't funny in a sweet kind of way... a turn of phrase, a smile, a balloon bobbing about above a wee boy's head, or a big bulldog's smile from having it's arse skelped (by a cat) can turn things around and make the whole world seem a bit brighter.That's what we can, and should, do for one another.
Nicely put old friend
Overwhelming sad, we just need to remember that we are all human and actually help each other :-(
My comment didn't post. Oh well, it's ok. The gist was wouldn't it be wonderful if the world could live in peace? There was more, but I will leave it at that.
We all need to remember that if we were born into good or even half-decent circumstances we were simply lucky. An accident of birth. It could have been completely different. It IS completely different for so many of the world's people.
Where's the compassion in thi sworld?
Oh dear, looks like I'm late to the party and all the sausage rolls have gone.Can't speak for mainland Europe, but Britain has been invaded so many times by assorted cultures over the centuries that I doubt there's any Anglo-Saxon blood left. We're pretty much all immigrants if you go back far enough.A post about the current state of affairs was bound to be like a red rag to a bull. For my part I do understand that some migrants are genuinely running from persecution or impending death, but sorting out those cases from the opportunists isn't a task I'd want to tackle.Unfortunately though, the UK is a tiny place and however much sympathy exists for the plight of these people, the fact is the country is full to bursting already.
Belief in the possibility of something better ... its so bloody human. But if you put too many people into one 'boat' it sinks, be that boat a boat or a small island country. If we don't find ways to both stem the tide and share the load - based on population densities not per capita wealth - we are all going to find our lives diminished in some way. I agree with the person above, we start with the traffickers who deal in lies and lives.
An email received today I know our government stinks, we all know our government stinks. We know the country and the world is headed for the shitter and it makes me angry that the people in charge, the upper elite are eating the fatted calf while many of us struggle for daily food.Did you know we have asylum cities? Large cities that cannot deport non-nationals or illegal immigrants no matter what they do? Now our mighty president is giving all these money (much more than a destitute American could get) , a place to live, food to eat for doing nothing and some Americans where both partners work two jobs can still not live decently and the children are starving.Our first lady has messed with the school lunch programs so much that it has been reduced to an amount that would not feed a good sized rat all in the name of good health. It is scary. I hope we can be saved.We, on the whole, have no problem with immigrants. Allow them to come, we are a nation of immigrants but do it by the rules and not to the detriment of those already here.I did not want to add my shit to your mess from this post. I am sorry you were bombarded with that mess.Privately I would just like to know, I have heard that many countries hate America. Why? Know I dislike the leaders, did not vote for the shithead in charge. We hopefully will find the right person to change that if it's not to late.Could you send this email to a few of your intelligent friends like tom and others. I really want to know what is thought of americans.And I'm piling this on you after you have lost your wieners/sticks! Sorry.I really do respect your opinion, John. If the question makes you uncomfortable, just delete.
Was the email unsigned John?
This is a major issue for us all. My grandmother came from Cape Breton to the U.S., my mom's grandparents met in Boston after coming from Ireland, the rest were all first settlers from England in the first 30 years. How can I begrudge what my family took for granted. I am horrified by the " anchor baby" designation. Surely there can be a global discussion if people put their hearts and heads together rather than just focusing on the economics....
If Tom or whoever just had said fucking American government I would have agreed. But I am not a fucking American.I support the food banks, and my church group that helps out anyone in need. I am on a budget, very housebound and don't get out much but I help as much as I can.As much as I despise the Mexico's corrupt government I would never say fucking Mexicans or any Central or South American people.As for the WW1 quip I meant that no matter what our government does, the American people, much like all people , help as much as we can. We hear help me we help.Treaties demand help, if you don't want to give any governmental help X the treaties. I am all for that.I grew up during the Viet War started by China and the French. I never wanted to embark on that again but we did. As for Tom, apology .... if you were not the one who I read off and on with the snide comments. But then again I am not a fucking American. I am a moderate/conservative who worked very hard all my life, pays my taxes whether I want to or not and has not voted for any of the reigning government winners for the last elections starting with Clinton.As for the problems that all started before WW1 with the land grabs from the UK and Europe for India, the Middle East and Africa.America messed around with South America since after WW2.There is lots of bad choices all around.What the UK and Europe is seeing with the illegals, America has had for over 100 years. Mass immigration that strains the budget and infrastructure that is making the southwest a third world country. As for angryparsnip it is a book that has been set aside for a few years. I took the name.It is how everyone picks the pretty and colorful carrots and forgets the parsnips it comes with recipes. The one for parsnip muffins is really tasty !I should never answer any comments on the blogs of other plus that is the most I have ever said or wrote the word fucking !Last time John only smiley faces from now on.
Bloody hell x
Change your name It always colours what ever comment I read from you.
I blogged about changing my name but.... all my regular followers didn't want a change.Just skip over me: )cheers, parsnip
No, I don't skip comments. I shall just think of you as permanently angry woman who then says cheers although I note you mostly left cheers out of the comments here.
You could always just drop the 'angry' and call yourself parsnip. Then you wouldn't have to say cheers, parsnip.
I've known a few Americans and always found them to be polite intelligent people. I daresay there are a few idiots too, but every nation has them - God knows we have our share....The problem as I see it is that our governments seem to have forgotten that they are supposed to work for the people, not the other way around.
I just read this lot through and it is all a load of shit from self righteous hypocrites who would end up being not in my back yarders when a bunch of migrants ended up in their back yards. With A few exceptions nobody remotely gets it. Bush and Blair destabilized the world. It is too late to stop what is happening. Lots of hot air here John and i had an early night. Still it rampagers on and now the terrorists are getting on to trains. Get out your guns in North Africa and bomb the north African ports. Kill the perpetrators of this cruel trafficking. Bomb IS and kill the fucking lot off them.
I always say that if people want to come to the U.S., then they should be allowed to come to the U.S. I know many people don't agree with me, but they had ancestors who were allowed to come here once upon a time. My maternal grandmother came to the U.S. when she was twelve. I am grateful to be an American. I love all who want to join us.Love,Janie
Bloody hell! I'm going back to the scotch eggs, crab sticks and dog shit up the fridge.
I love comments and will now try very hard to reply to all of themPlease dont be abusive x