Yesterday I was asked by a villager to be a referee for them.
The reference was for a shotgun licence.
When I was asked, I must admit I did hesitate for a moment, but as the shotgun was an antique, had been dismantled and was kept by the most responsible of owners I was happy to oblige.
Now I've blogged about gun laws before and the ensuing debate it caused opened my eyes to a few things, namely the near fanatical way many Americans view their right to bear arms.
Owning an antique family heirloom is one thing which is acceptable to me. If the owner was a farmer and wanted to use the gun at work, then I would have signed the forms too. But if the gun owner just wanted the gun " as protection" then I would have refused the request.
One of the biggest reasons for gun ownership in the US seems to be for protection. It's a kill them before they kill me mentality and although I do disagree with it, I do understand it to a degree.
What I cannot get my head around at all is the need for some seemingly ordinary people to keep automatic weapons. Automatic weapons that can kill 58 people and wound nearly 500 in just under an hour.
I just don't understand that.
And I never will.
The reason you'll never understand it is because there IS no reason for it.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI don't understand the need for automatic weapons either. As you know, I mentioned yesterday on my blog that my husband and I own two small pistols, and I was shocked that a couple of bloggers wanted to call me out on it, and seemed to want me to justify it. I don't LIKE owning guns, and I barely know how to use them, but my husband fears for our safety and buying them was his decision. Our society is very different than in Europe. Everyone has guns here, and criminals murdering people with them is commonplace. If I could live in a place like England, I would happily give them up. It must be nice to not live in fear and feel the need to be armed. We don't have that luxury here.
ReplyDeleteYou might find this interesting:
DeleteMyth #5: Keeping a gun at home makes you safer.
Fact-check: Owning a gun has been linked to higher risks of homicide, suicide, and accidental death by gun.
• For every time a gun is used in self-defense in the home, there are 7 assaults or murders, 11 suicide attempts, and 4 accidents involving guns in or around a home.
• 43 percent of homes with guns and kids have at least one unlocked firearm.
• In one experiment, one third of 8-to-12-year-old boys who found a handgun pulled the trigger.
Not really. I know those statistics. And believe you me, if either my husband or myself were suicidal, or if children (or teenagers) lived in our home, or if there was any chance that either of us would pick up a gun in anger.....I would never have allowed them in our house. We're liberals and strongly favor much tighter gun laws. We're not the kind of people that make them necessary, though.
DeleteYou have a gun and yet you barely know how to use it. I am still trying to process that piece of information.
DeleteTraveller, I thought the same thing.
DeleteYou must not read carefully. My husband bought the guns. I "own" them in the sense that we consider all of our possessions joint property.
DeleteSheesh. I wish I'd never mentioned having them at all. :(
no, jen, we MUST speak out! don't let the ignorant get you down or make you shut up.
DeleteI don't like the thought of handguns but I sort of get rationale why people feel the need to protect themselves in a society where the criminal underclass arms itself illegally .
DeleteAutomatic weapons I just don't get
I don't like guns, never have. As a Brit who has lived in the US for most of my adult life, I despair of the gun craziness here. But I do understand Jennifer's point and believe that we need to be able to discuss different views without immediately attacking those who hold those views.
DeleteYes carol. I want to understand it all more
Deletejohn, the "criminal underclass" is able to arm itself illegally because the regulations on guns are so lax that the black market thrives. it's all of a piece, really.
Deletebut i do agree that until we can all talk civilly about where we stand on these issues, there will be no profess of any sort.
i sure do agree that banning automatic weapons is a start most people can agree on.
i appreciate your thoughts.
I wonder how many people who have a gun for protection have actually saved a life by using it? It would be interesting to compare that number to lives lost to the same (eg road rage, children finding them, teens showing off, suicide, etc).
DeleteI did read carefully. Your husband bought two small pistols (good thing they are small) - presumably one for him and one for you, yet you barely know how to use them.....still,processing.
DeleteI don't get it and I fucking LIVE HERE! I have never seen the need for me to own a weapon of mass destruction.
ReplyDeleteI used to live in Houston, Texas. The morning news always had a list of overnight murders. The big news was the night there were no murders! Crazy. We never succumbed to the pressure to get a gun.
ReplyDeleteThere is no reason, and they're in the hands of crazies now.
ReplyDeleteFor far too long Congress has been held hostage by the National Rifle Association, and I don't see anything changing even though 70% of Americans wish they would do something...anything.
An American here and i don't understand the whole automatic weapon thing either.. i do believe in our right to bear arms.. Why should only the criminals have the weapons? i should be able to defend my home and person if needed.. Although i will tell you i do not own a gun.. I see no need for your average everyday person to have an automatic weapon.. Some people are fanatical about it.. i know a few.. Around alot of people you cannot even mention gun control .. to mention restricting automatic weapons is like an attack on their person.. i think they see it as an open door to take away their gun privileges all together... so they won't even go there.. Hugs! deb
ReplyDeleteHaving automatic weapons in the US is illegal. Semi-Automatic guns are legal. However, as we saw in Las Vegas, semi automatics can be easily retrofitted to become automatic. Since the horrible incident, I am sure that many more semi-automatics have been bought along with the add ons that will make it easy again for an unstable person to take more lives. Life in the US today has become unstable.
DeleteI don't understand the need for automatic weapons either, John, or the need for multiple guns. Or silencers. Fully automatic guns are illegal here (in the US) but the tool to make a semi-automatic an automatic is not. Makes no sense. Unfortunately for this country there is a Very strong gun lobby.
ReplyDeleteThere is a sense of Manifest Destiny baked in to the US culture. We have to subdue nature, kill everything and eat it. Honestly, I think as a nation we're just crazy. I'm resigned to hand guns, but AR15s need to be banned. They were illegal until 2004 and I don't think anyone suffered for it.
ReplyDeleteI don't understand it either. There is no need for it unless someone has paranoid delusions and that person should NEVER be allowed to have one.
ReplyDeleteMy daughter and I were discussing the gun culture in the US vs UK. America has an almost romantic history with guns for instance Cowboys and mobsters. Just look at the amount of films based on them.
ReplyDeleteDon't shoot the messenger, it was something my daughter had seen discussed on TV and mentioned it to me and made me think.
Call someone an asshole, and you can always apologise later. Shoot someone and it is impossible to go back in time. Living in the wilds of northern Canada, our issue has been mainly wild animals.
ReplyDeleteBarb
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteYou can't kill 58 people and severely wound 500 others with a knife when you're 32 stories up in a hotel and 1,360 feet away from your victims.
DeleteYes automatic weapons are war weapons
DeleteI can't comment through ignorance about the US laws but here in UK they are quite strict thankfully. Farmers/gamekeepers etc are usually allowed them; I think, to go off on a tangent, we are more likely to have a debate about arming our Police (the bobby on the beat is of course out-dated but I'm not on either side regarding whether they should have guns or not).
ReplyDeleteWhat does that mean your not on either side... I've always been told to stand up for something or you end up not standing for anything....
DeleteShe's talking about arming the police, not the citizenry. The "bobby on the beat" in the UK has traditionally been unarmed. That is something probably best left to the police to decide if that needs to be changed.
DeleteA dearly beloved classmate in a tiny and therefor quite intimate high school I attended killed himself with a hunting rifle. It was a blemish on all our lives. I am terrified of the whole myth of guns being a protection. When I lived in South Africa the soldiers on the overpasses on the way into Cape Town quite shook me.
ReplyDeleteIt isn't understandable. I hate it.
ReplyDeleteYou can't just walk into a gun store in America and walk back out with an automatic weapon. The Federal authorities have to be consulted and if granted,issue the relevant permission. It's part of the Constitution (2nd Amendment) that an American Citizen has the right to bear arms. The Gun Lobby in Washington and the NRA (National Rifle Association)would never allow it any other way. Here in the UK, you have to have a very good reason for wanting a shotgun certificate then prove that it's kept locked up in a gun cabinet when not in use and you must allow a Firearms Officer to visit your premises and verify all that when and if your licence comes up for renewal.
ReplyDeleteThank you for that
DeleteI think Nana is mistaken about the way automatic weapons are procured. No Federal permission is gained or granted. My hunch is that private citizens generally acquired the illegally. Besides, gun laws are state laws, not federal laws.
DeleteI believe the Second Amendment refers to an armed militia, not an armed citizenry. They are not the same thing.
DeleteI believe the Las Vegas killer fitted an off-the-shelf gadget to his semi automatic to turn it into a machine gun.
DeleteIn colonial and post-Revolutionary times, a militia was simply a bunch of citizens organized and acting in concert.
DeleteI don;t understand it either. On one of our frequent holidays in the US the farmer and I went into a gun shop out of interest. There were literally hundreds of the things.
ReplyDeleteHere in the UK the day the farmer was diagnosed with a brain tumour he had to surrender his gun licence and get rid of his guns.
Really? I know it's upsetting to recall but I must admit it's thorough
DeleteI think the NRA the most evil organization in this country.
ReplyDeleteI couldn't agree more.
DeleteI am with you. I seemly do not understand Americans love of guns and in particular semi automatic weapons. I thought after Sandy Hook when children were slaughtered in their classroom things might change. Sadly, nothing did. It is simply beyond my comprehension and there is no excuse for it,none.
ReplyDeleteI don't think it's just an American thing . I think Saudi Arabia and Austria are high up in buying automatic weapons
DeleteIn Vienna when I went into a shop to try on some boots (it was thier version of Barbour), in the window display was a Ruger. Centre of Vienna. I bought the boots. At the time I didnt think about it. But today I went to Trago mills and in there, there were air rifles and some looked bigger than a 22. They were just on a rack not even behind the counter. I think that sends the wrong message as you had to go up some stairs and through the kids toy area (I kid you not) to get there. Obviously there werent any pellets for them or at least I dont think so. But some of them looked like they needed a stand and also something from a film set that kids would like to pick up and look at. Before anyone kicks off at this comment, you can for sure break skin with a 22. Else people wouldnt have them for vermin control...
DeleteEven worse!!! right behind the toy area, were not only arrows, carbon fibre and wooden practice ones. But right next to it were assembled bows! A child could have picked it up, realised what they were and if they could pull the bow, hit someone with an arrow! WTF? next to the toy area. That carp needs sorting out! I only went for a wax jacket! what an eye opener.
Interesting x
DeleteAs you may have seen on my blog a few years ago, I am quite good with a shot gun and with a rifle. Only under strict instruction when in Scotland. I was good as I have been practising archery for 24 years. I would hope I could hit a target well after all of that time.
DeleteI had to take the post down as I had haters hating for the reason that I would dare to touch a fire arm.
I say everyone needs to live their own life. I grew up in a farming family. A shot gun was normal. I knew it was in the cabinet, I knew I was never to even touch the cabinet let alone take anything out if I ever found the key.
Bring the zombies on, I am on Daryl's team, archers dont make loud bangs! ;)
Ms Moon said it first and best: there is NO reason to own an automatic or semi-automatic weapon unless your goal is murder.
ReplyDeleteLooking at the smaller picture...NYC has a lower crime/ gun use rate than many other large US cities [see Note From A broad's comments]. New York State has stricter gun laws. I live outside the city, I do not own a gun, I don't know anyone who owns a gun, certainly no on I know would dream of carrying a gun. I don not know anyone who hunts or owns hunting rifles and deplore the practice. Please do not think all Americans are armed gun fanatics! That is not true. But we do feel strongly about our Bill of Rights.
ReplyDeleteI know it's not true liz
DeleteI shoot, along with my husband, son and daughter in law. Our guns are kept in gun cabinets (one cabinet per person) with combination locks, and only the owner of that cabinet knows the combination number.
ReplyDeleteWe have no ammunition in our houses, we buy it at the range, when we also buy clays to blast out of the sky!
I presume you shoot rifles col.
Deleteit's the automatic weapons I cannot truly understand
We use shotguns John. They're scary enough, the thought of semi or fully automatic weapons horrifies me!
DeleteSaw this on facebook the other day."When the founding fathers wrote the second amendment, guns fired one round a minute. Today's rifles have a cyclic rate of 600+. Maybe it's time we stopped using 18th century laws to regulate 21st century weapons." There was a picture of a musket? and a weapon similar to what was used in Vegas! Certainly something to think about.
ReplyDeleteThe right to bear arms is more ridiculous than the right to arm bears ...
ReplyDeleteThe award for the best line of the night goes to jason
DeleteJason you are oversimplifying and speaking from a British POV.
DeleteWell I guess that's the Brits perspective as we never had the start and the kind of birth that America had.
DeleteNo,we just had the Vikings,the Romans,the Spanish Conquistadors,the French,Cromwell,the Covenanters, Suez, two bloody big wars, the Falklands et al and now Brexit to contend with! Yeah, we've had it easy!
DeleteWe've had it different
DeleteThe USA has never lost its 'wild west' mentality.
ReplyDeleteIn trying to understand the mentality of the nra and some gun owners, you're looking for a quality not present: that is rationality.
ReplyDeleteJohn, did you know that you have Anonymous back on?
ReplyDeleteBefore you delete it, may I just say that I agree with only slightly confused in that the Americans are still living in the past.
Joan (Devon)
No I had forgotten I had it on. No matter if Petra turns up again off it will go!
DeleteReading thru all the comments... this came to mind... So... what if Britain is invaded by another country and its inhabitants have no way to defend themselves.. now i understand that this is highly unlikely so no need to point that out but i just wonder... Will you just rely on the bobbies and military to protect yourselves?? Or are you only assuming it could only happen by nuclear war or some such.. ?? Or John even if we are talking zombies here...lol deb
ReplyDeleteWe did alright for ourselves in the second world war
DeleteWe have NATO and the Geneva Convention!
DeleteAnd Mary Berry
DeleteLol! Armed and dangerous with her rotary whisk!!
DeleteAnd a soggy bottom
DeleteHow very dare you John Gray! The saintly Mary has a fine pert bottom hehe x
Deletelol never under estimate what a British Nanna's stare can do! Or even as the Mr says his Nanna, a Glaswegian, could do with a spurtle!
DeleteLong live our British sense of humour!
DeleteI am so grateful that the gun culture seems to be largely absent here. There are households with guns, but they are in the minority. And have to be kept in gun safes when not in use.
ReplyDeleteI agree. As a sport like hunting a few shots is enough not hundreds. Even for protection a reasonable gun to use mostly as a threat is more than enough.
ReplyDeleteI read somewhere that when the country was just beginning it was against the law NOT to have a gun.
Maybe the NRA secretly hopes that if the USA is invaded its civilians will have more firepower than the army!
Anyway, I do not have a gun myself. It's too dangerous!
Good point x
DeleteYou seem as perplexed as I feel and I am even more puzzled about under what circumstances guns would be used for personal protection.
ReplyDeleteBut then again guns are still rare here....so I see it from that perspective
DeleteAndrew: your town is invaded and your family is attacked? You transport valuables in your job? You're a small shop owner who does the bank deposit late at night? I'm not saying necessarily these are good/ best reasons but to say you cannot think of a reason to be armed is again, oversimplifying.
DeleteAnd John, I may be wrong, but I believe having the US join the war against Hitler contributed to England's remaining free of Nazi occupation.
Indeed they did. I was being facetious to lighten the debate
DeleteAmericans sat back watched European countries fighting Germany, We were being slaughtered but would not give in!.No thought was given to Jews being slaughtered.
DeleteWas not until Pearl Harbour that Americe woke up!.
You have to realise Liz that generally guns just do not exist here! Ok in the cities they are a problem but certainly not on a level you in the US WOULD see as a problem . Here in Wales I have never heard of a shooting incidence save for a suicide .....when you have little or no experience of gun exposure of COURSE you are going to be shocked when you review a culture where is is normal to carry or own a gun
DeleteI am not having a pop at Americans liz...I just want to understand the gun debate over there
DeleteThanks for your response Liz. I can't imagine I would be quicker with a gun than someone intent on doing me harm or rob me. A few decades ago someone here in Australia shot a home intruder and he was charged and convicted of manslaughter as essentially it was judged as an over reaction by the home owner. I am not saying I would prefer to die than shoot someone but I cannot imagine ever shooting and/or killing another human being.
DeleteKirrie, be that as it may, the US joining the War helped save England from occupation. And as I have personally known concentration camp survivors who were liberated by American troops, the US once involved contributed.
DeleteJohn I can only reiterate that I do not own a gun, I do not know anyone who owns a gun. My dad was ex military and a hunter and yes, he owned a handgun for target shooting, which he was very good at and sporting guns, all kept in a safe or a locked carrier. He is the only exposure I have ever had to gun use and I've been an American my entire life. People here on your blog are talking like all Americans keep an assault rifle under the bed. Yeesh.
And I do not advocate gun ownership esp ownership of assault weapons, so don t be all mad at me.
I think you have over reacted Liz, I am not mad at anyone except people who advocate the selling, buying and usage of automatic weapons
DeletePlease read my responses carefully x
DeleteI always read carefully. Will not comment further on this topic.
DeleteI do think you have taken this personally and I don't know why
DeleteIt's obviously an emotive subject
DeleteAn example, John, of the responses we get in the US when we suggest any, the slightest, the most minor, of changes to gun laws. They trot out the emotional "I'll just die if the 2nd amendment doesn't include rocket launchers.
DeleteSanity .....sanity must prevail
DeleteI too have been an American all my life ;) I don't feel that commenters think we all have guns under our beds. John was asking for a discussion. Don't get so defensive. Besides it can't be defend how crazy our gun culture is even if we all don't have loads of them lying around the house.
DeleteJust had my cousind mother in law staying American. Was really hard work!. Everything was quaint and small!. Was shocked I don,t drive great bus service 15 mins in to city. Kept asking continually is it safe!. Wanted to know where my gun was just in case!. She felt insecure as obviously I don't have one!. Guess she did not travel well!. Was shocked that my neighbours and friends just walk in the house they know where key is if I,m not in.
ReplyDeleteAt the end of the week she began to relax.
The gun thing really got her as it is normal for her to have one in the house. Abnormal and a scary thought to people in UK.
Another interesting perspective
DeleteDunblane does haunt us in Scotland.
DeleteYes....but what damage could that lunatic have done with a machine gun?
DeleteYe gods was 21 years ago!. Can still recite every child's name and their teacher sob!. 16 precious children and teacher tying to protect them.
DeleteYou were involved personally Lovie?
DeleteReally interesting and funny comment Kirrie. You could have at least armed your mother in law with a knife or pepper spray against those assailants on the number 5 bus.
DeleteWas my cousins mother in law!. Think the world would have been safer if I,d armed everyone else on the 26 bus!. She did not travel well!. I always say thank you to bus drivers, she gave me a toxic look. You paid him she said loudly why say thank you!.In earshot f driver. All I could say loudly was manners cost nothing and people matter!. Bus passengers cheered n clapped . She was truly auful!.
DeleteCan,t comment!.😢
ReplyDeleteJohn, I grew up around hunting and guns and enjoy both. I happen agree with you about the automatic weapons. BUT it seems like the defult response (the "ban them!" cry) seems to igmore the simple fact that an individual hell bent on killing large amounts of people will find another way. I don't remember guns being used on 9/11 or the Boston bombings.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you, the hell bent will try and find another way. But, I don't care, make them find another way then. There is no place for automatic or semi-automatic weapons in the hands of a civilization. Their purpose is to kill people.
DeleteI have to admit I get very frustrated when I read thing like this..not the post as much as the comments. I can almost see people looking down their noses at something they either do not understand or the sense they have of moral and intellectual superiority that positively drips from the comments. That attitude is why we happen to have the odious man we have in the WH right now.
ReplyDeleteI have only held a gun once in my life. I don't own a gun and will probably never own a gun. But I am not so narrow that I cannot see their place in American society.
The UK is about 57 PERCENT the size of California. We have people who live MILES from their nearest neighbor. They have families and livestock to protect with no one at the other end of a telephone to call to bail them out.
American self-reliance is at heart what the "gun culture" is all about. It is not something to sneer at but to cherish and nurture. Reflect on our recent series of hurricanes; who were the people who rolled their sleeves up and helped their neighbors? It sure wasn't Hollywood or Wall Street but the men and women who knew how to shoot a gun, and pilot a boat and fix a roof...In other words the very people that are sneered at by all too many of you. But tell you what; I'd rather have them as neighbors any day than a lot of the people who snicker.
I would have no real problem personally with sensible gun control. Doesn't affect me. But I've been around for a while now I you can bet that would only be the first step. So on balance I'm fine with things the way they are. And you don't have to understand it or like it. No one really cares what you think
Yes, but other big countries, Australia for one, don't have the same reliance/fondness for guns. And are often both self-reliant and willing to help others. I don't think those traits belong to any one country or group of people.
DeleteAs an outsider I think it unlikely that the US will get sensible gun control anytime soon and do wonder why.
And how many guns are in the hands of Australian criminals? Few and none. You are also no mentioning,conveniently, the 100 exemptions that allow Australians to legally own guns.
ReplyDeleteWe are different countries with different cultures. It's time folks respected the difference rather than tut tut about it
Most Americans are fine with Australians giving up their rights. Surely Australians must be fine with Americans availing themselves of their constitutional rights also?
We are indeed different countries with different cultures. I don't recall tut-tutting about yours. Or saying that no-one im Australia has guns. Some people do. However, it isn't common in the suburbs, which I for one, am happy about. Australians giving up their rights?
DeleteWhoa I am not tut gutting at anyone. I just want to understand the culture. I get the big country thing and I am perfectly happy with a rifle above the fireplace in the country I just find the AUTOMATIC thing too much
DeleteI don't understand the reverence given to a document that was written over 200 years ago.
DeleteYou must not be American then. Our constitutional republic was founded on that document. I assure you, Americans take that very seriously.
DeleteIf anyone was sincerely interested in why Americans appreciate one of their Rights in the Constitution being the Right to Bear Arms ... they would do some homework, read about it, a little history might help.
DeleteBut to go on an online blog and question it ... only invites insults and sneers from the holler than thou, as well as the simple minded and the other posters who up until this moment were appreciating this blog for the gentle humor and feeling that came across .. that wherever we live, we all have the same fondness for dogs, good neighbors, gentle old ladies etc.
Now this is just another blog with people who are not experienced in life outside of where they live .. who get their ideas and "knowledge" from tabloids and the nightly local news.
If there were no guns on the planet, I think that would be wonderful.
We could go at each other with knives and hatchets if someone tried to harm us , rape us or rob us or harm our children etc ..
Until then, I guess people in the UK can feel safer because they don't have a gun .. and they can look down on other people from other countries.
Bye ...
I am aware that the US was founded on that document. I have experienced life other tha where I live now. I have lived on four continents, lived and worked in six different countries, one of which was the US.
DeleteMy point, probably too succinctly made, was that I do not understand why a document that was written over 200 years ago, considered suitable for the times then, should automatically be considered sacrosanct and complelety appropriate for today.
Just because a second amendment exists doesn't mean that there shouldn't be 28th amendment. In fact I would like a 28th amendment to mirror what the 21st did for the 18th.
People can argue that they think private ownership of guns is a good thing, or necessary because of the circumstances, but to use a 200 year old amendment as support for their opinion....that is what I do not get.
How's your follower count coming along John 😀
Very well-stated! I have been wondering the same thing for years.
DeleteTraveller, that is a very good point. I have to think about that. Another thought along those lines if people need to hold on to stuff because something says so, the Old Testament says dont eat pigs because they are unclean. Dont eat things that dont have fins and a tail. There goes bacon and shrimp...
DeleteSane people agree that private citizens have no need for automatic weapons in a civilized society. The gun debate hinges on the limits of single-action gun ownership. Like many aspects of American culture, the idea that people can protect themselves and their families with a gun is a myth. The news is full of stories of mishandled guns killing innocent people. I can't remember the last time I read that a farmer saved his family from a rabid animal or violent intruder by shooting it as it was battering his front door. There is a gun culture in the US, and among its credos is the ridiculous belief that citizens must be prepared to protect themselves from the government. Never mind that this wouldn't even be possible.
ReplyDeleteActually I have to point out here that there HAVE been several reported instances in the past years of random citizens saving the lives of police officers who have overpowered by criminals. Random armed citizens intervening in situations that would have caused the death of the officer. Just saying.
DeleteShawn Maeder, It's a "myth" that private citizens can protect themselves? That is simply nonsense. Do you read the news? The Washington Times just ran a series of "good guy with a gun" stories. And that's not talking about protecting livestock and family from animals. Where do you LIVE? I live in the greater SF Bay area but the mountains and desert are near. We have rattlers and coyotes and mountain lion all over the place. People use their guns as they were intended. Do you ever even step off of paved streets? This county is huge and just because it's not in your every day experience, don't discount that it happens smdh
DeleteYeah! Well this is one American who doesn't get it either - I do not need a gun to whup anyone. I will just whup ya if ya threaten me - and this ol' bat is 70.
ReplyDeleteLove it Liz
DeleteYou're not alone.
ReplyDeleteOK, I will chime in as well. Automatic weapons I just don't get. Even semi-automatic weapons I have a problem with.
ReplyDeleteWe have a rifle (inherited) and a pistol (also inherited). My Dad bought the pistol after we were broken into one night while eating dinner by someone high on drugs. Kicked in the window and came in, we didn't know if he was going to kill us as we escaped out the back window (this is late 80's). My Dad bought a pistol, a .38 (not automatic or even semi, it's a revolver). We went out to learn to use it and knew where it was if ever needed. That was most likely the still rare, once in a lifetime event. When my Dad passed, my Mom gave me the gun. It's at the farm in case we need it. This would mainly be for an animal, a snake, etc. We are rural so you never know. Do we need 10? No. Or 20? No. Or assault rifles? No.
I'm always amazed at these two statistics.
THREE percent of the population in America own FIFTY percent of all the guns. Think about that one for a minute.
SEVENTY EIGHT percent of the population in America DON'T own guns. That means only 22% own guns (and then look at the 3% stat above).
It seems those who own multiple weapons often cite fear of the Government taking over the country (not sure how that works since they already run the country) and so they want to be able to rise up. I always think to myself, have you SEEN our military and the weapons and things they have? Trust me, if they are going to take over, you having 20 guns is not going to stop that.
There is overwhelming bipartisan support for sensible gun control laws but sadly, our politicians are beholden to the gun lobby.
Remember, it's only 3% that own half of all guns.
If you hold guns in the house for self-protection you cannot say you do not support the gun culture of the US. By holding guns in the house you are per se supporting the gun culture of the US in my opinion. You can't have it both ways.
ReplyDeleteamen
DeleteAgree.
DeleteI think this blog still has not explained to me the culture of the gun within American life.my gut feeling is that people should be allowed a gun under stringent rules and checks. However no one should be allowed multiple guns and certainly AUTOMATIC guns should be banned.
ReplyDeleteIt isn't difficult to understand; like customs and traditions in any culture/family, people hang on to what they remember as good from childhood and past associations. In this country there is a long tradition of hunting/fishing/camping and other outdoor pursuits. Very often with at least one male relative having served in the military. They were often family activities with coming of age rituals associated with them. Boys (and in some cases girls) received their first guns as children and learned alongside their father and male relatives how to hunt and not just the skill of pointing and shooting a gun but the ethos of the "clean kill" and conservation and preservation of both the wildlife and the habitat. For a lot of people growing up in this country it has very powerful associations.
DeleteHollywood, too, has played no small role in romanticizing the gun. Very few of the TV shows and movies from my childhood did not involve both guns and the idealized American figure of the cowboy.
Suddenly, all things "gun" have come under attack. The people who use and like guns are increasingly marginalized by...well by people like the ones commenting here. People who know nothing about guns, never served in the military, are as removed from the culture these "gun nuts", as they think of them, were raised. What happens when people feel under attack for their beliefs? Do you think these folks are paranoid or do you not understand that there is a huge movement underway to take the constitutional rights to bear arms away from folks who cherish that right (whether you agree or not. Again that is a HUGE deal to people who served in the military and people from rural areas and the South. I don't share it but I understand how they feel.
Each and every person commenting who is rabidly against "guns", seemingly has never OWNED a gun or fired a gun. Arguably the people who are least familiar with them and most unreasonably afraid of an inanimate object. It really makes no sense.
As far as automatic weapons go, those ARE illegal to own in this country. Whatever gave you the idea they were legal? Would people own them if they could? I have no doubt. Like all things people feel strongly about they collect them. Boys and their toys, you know? Why do people buy sports cars that can go far far faster than any legal speed limit? Because they evoke an emotional response. Because smart people market them knowing that. Because it's human nature to want the latest and greatest. It does not mean that the average gun owner, even with lots of guns, is going out and killing the neighbors. I have lots of shoes and handbags. It doesn't mean I intend to DO anything with them..I can't even wear them all. But I like them, I like buying them and I like having them.
There is nothing unusual or remarkable about guns or the people who like guns. It may not be a passion you share but I'm sure you each have something you're passionate about that not all your friends and family would appreciate. Demonizing people who are different than you, who have different values and customs and life experience...ummm, wouldn't people who do that be called bigots?
"Each and every person commenting who is rabidly against "guns", seemingly has never OWNED a gun or fired a gun. Arguably the people who are least familiar with them and most unreasonably afraid of an inanimate object. It really makes no sense."
DeleteThose of us who are anti-guns, have never owned them and are afraid of them are also the people who prove that it is quite possible to live a happy, long, productive life without ever touching a gun
No one is forcing gun ownership on ANYONE. Has anyone pressured you into having a gun? I don't own a gun. I probably will never. But they are tools, just like your lawnmower or chainsaw is a TOOL. It will not jump out of the closet and attack you. If you intend to have a tool like a chainsaw it's best if someone experienced shows you what to do and more importantly what not to do. It's really no different and I don't understand this crazy fear/fascination and think it's actually more dangerous than the damned guns. Perhaps that's why so many inappropriate people seems to wind up with them...because of the forbidden fruit aspect instead of treating them like the tool they are, we're imbuing them with powers they should not have. And gun aficionados are not ones responsible but you folks who make them much more than they really are
DeleteWonderingone this is the most sane response i have read yet.. well done.. and well said.. deb
DeleteLawnmowers can't kill 58 people and grievously wound 500 others in nine minutes.
DeleteLawn mowers don't cut grass, people cut grass.
Delete@ TexasTrailerParkTrash and neither can a gun absent a person using it with bad intent. The gun is not the problem. The people are always the problem. Inanimate objects are neither good nor evil. Humans can find all manner of ways to do evil. Cars, lately have been wielded to pretty devastating result. I've not heard a outcry against cars.....
Delete@wonderingone.....the gun is the problem. If the gun I saw not the problem why not legalize fully automatic weapons, and land mines while we are at it!
Delete@wonderingone--Cars were not created for the express purpose of killing as many people as possible in a short period of time. Assault weapons were. I see no resolution to this problem because Pandora's box has been opened and this country has allowed military grade weapons to be sold to average yahoos. There is no going back now. Mass carnage events like Las Vegas will be something we're just going to have to get used to. Welcome to the new normal.
DeleteAnd another thing...Texas is now an open carry state. When I see someone walking into Walmart with an assault rifle, I won't know if he's a "good guy with a gun" or a guy bent on taking out as many people as possible...until he starts shooting. I shouldn't have to live with that. And now, they're allowing students at UT campuses to pack heat. Yeah, that's a real good idea. Mix youthful hormones with alcohol at frat parties and throw in a weapon. What could go wrong?
Delete@TTPT How often do you see someone walking into Walmart carrying an assault rifle.....serious question, not a wind up. I am just trying to fathom how often this happens. I can remember being shocked at seeing gun racks in the cabs of pick up trucks in some states...but have not experienced "open carry"
DeleteOpen carry went into effect on Jan. 1, 2016. Previously licensed concealed carry licenses now allow the gun to be in full view, but it must be in a holster. Long arms (rifles) are allowed out in the open but I thought this disclaimer was amusing: "In most cases, you can openly carry a long arm within the state. However, this law is limited by disorderly conduct statutes." So, if you start shooting someone, I guess that qualifies as disorderly conduct.
DeleteHow often do you see someone in public with a gun?
DeleteYou are right... i don't see it in my state of Arkansas (not sure what the law is here) And i lived in TX for years and never saw it.. I lived in CA for three years and the only thing i saw was a guy go into a movie theater with a HUGE hunting knife... now that made me uncomfortable... why did he need to take that to the movies??
DeleteI think this blog still has not explained to me the culture of the gun within American life.my gut feeling is that people should be allowed a gun under stringent rules and checks. However no one should be allowed multiple guns and certainly AUTOMATIC guns should be banned.
ReplyDeleteI agree completely.
DeleteI also agree with you John and I have lived in the U.S. all my life. I do not believe there is any reason a person (other than military) needs or should have an automatic weapon. Unfortunately too many of us in this country are paying the very high price of these guns being legal. Many killed, including those in Vegas, are killed with legal weapons. I believe in our constitution, I just don't believe in allowing rapid fire weapons to be legal. I guess many more of us will continue to pay the very high price. I hate it.
DeleteI watched a friends brother put a gun in his mouth and pull the trigger when i was in my teens . 40 years later i still get flashbacks triggered by the daftest things . I live in the place in the UK with the highest gun ownership , we are very rural and a lot of people sport shoot , but you rarely see a gun outside of the organised shoots . I was threatened with a handgun in the course of my work a few years ago and that triggered months of flashbacks . I think our gun laws are pretty fair, I dont see how they can be made better
ReplyDeleteI'm with you, John. And even the idea of owning a pistol or small gun for self-protection I think is ill-founded.
ReplyDeleteI am also with you John.
ReplyDeleteAn antique gun kept for sentimental reasons (although I don't quite understand that) should be disabled then no licence would be needed.
ReplyDeleteI have a friend who got her concealed gun permit a few years ago. When I commented that I didn't realise it was so dangerous to live where she does she got all indignant and said it was perfectly safe. She doesn't see the contradiction in carrying a gun in a perfectly safe place.
Helen
I guess she never hears stories several young children who accidentally shot their mothers while the moms were driving. The children were in the back seat, somehow removed the gun from their "Safe place" and oops!
DeleteIn an effort to explain the culture. Guns are an ingrained part of American culture for many. My father and grandfather hunted. My grandparents gave me my first rifle when I was a teenager (I still have it.) I never hunted, but I did enjoy target shooting. My grandfather had a small collection of really great shotguns - I learned to shoot targets with them and really enjoyed it. My brother inherited those guns (he has hunted over the years) so when I went an bought myself one. My father bought a long barrel revolver to hunt with, he gave it to me about 20 years ago. I hired an instructor to teach me how to handle it safely. I enjoyed it, and bought two pistols for range shooting. For a couple of years I was a regular on a range shooting league. A gun the hands of a sane and sober person does not bother me. The USA does not do a good job of keeping guns out of the hands of persons with mental illness. We have a flawed system of background checks that is only as good as the data, and the data is flawed and incomplete in the name of protecting persons with mental illness. Families that have members with mental illness do not do an effective job of keeping guns out of the hands of those who might be dangerous.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
DeleteSpeaking for the mentally ill, who knows who is, who isn't, and how many gun owners become mentally ill later in life, and AFTER they buy a gun. Paranoia does not present AFTER a warning that "it might come visiting at a later date." Someone has to invent a kill switch that automatically overrides trigger action when mental illness pheromones are detected on the hand of anyone holding a gun. There. That's fixed.
DeleteHow many ex-military, who own guns, are affected by PTSD? The same goes for police. What? Nobody breaks into gun stores and steal weapons? No, that's just fake news. And legislators are looking out for the safety and welfare of our college students when they urge them to carry weapons on campus. The students refuse, those with power insist, and young women on campus are still being raped at gun point. Hell, the rapist doesn't even need a gun, they only need greater upper body strength. Wait. Every woman should be armed, right? Then if the would-be rapist sees the gun and runs, she'll have to soot them in the back to keep them on scene until police arrive, and seeing her with a gun they'll shoot to kill and . . .
Violence only begets worse violence. Guns were invented to kill. But guns don't kill people, right? And don't blame the mentally ill every time someone decides to shoots into a group of people. Hatred, bigotry, uncontrolled anger, racism, you name it, they're all reasons to pull a trigger. Right? Okay! So is fear. Fear's the best motivator.
I live in Texas, where people get out of their vehicles and duke it out at stop lights and intersections.
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ReplyDeleteWow, John, you really know how to open the door to controversy. :)
ReplyDeleteLet me just say that even though I am American (and grew up in the South, even!) I have NEVER understood the gun thing. My family never had guns, we never hunted, we never served in the military. We are just not gun people. So I am very much seeing this problem from that perspective.
Having said that, I can understand (like you) that having a rifle or shotgun or pistol in some circumstances makes sense -- on a farm, or out in the country.
But there's a sense of underlying fear on the part of many gun owners that I've never comprehended. This idea that you need an arsenal of firearms to protect yourself, that your country may be invaded or the tyrannical government may come after your property or criminals will break in in the dead of night. There are many facets to these fears, but I for one do not share them. I have lived in several of the biggest cities in the US and UK and I've never had a problem with crime. As Roosevelt said, "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."
On a related note, we Americans are also very defensive about the Constitution. It astonished me when I came to the UK and one of my British friends, talking about the flaws and ambiguities in the American Constitution, suggested we simply scrap it and start again! That is INCONCEIVABLE to most Americans, but I think citizens of other countries may see their governments in more flexible, evolutionary terms. (Of course, the UK still has a monarchy, so who knows. :) )
As some other commenters have said, certain automatic weapons are already prohibited in the USA, I believe. But the NRA fights and fights to keep everything it possibly can on the market.
Finally, I like 1st Man's comments above. I can't vouch for the statistics, but I have always heard that a tiny percentage of American gun owners own the vast majority of weapons. They're like tattoos -- apparently you can't get just one.
Steve, thank you for understanding my point. I have no intention to criticise any viewpoint
DeleteYou are not alone in not understanding that mind set. It scares the crap out of me living on this side of the pond and not knowing just who in the neighborhood has weapons and what their mental state may be on any given day. But hey, let's support that Second Amendment right and don't take into account it was written in the days that it took time to reload your damn musket. Times change and the laws should reflect that.
ReplyDelete@ Shinny, I worked in an ER for 17 years. Outside of someone who served in the military are wartime, I'm fairly confident that I've seen more gun violence than anyone commenting here. And I did not work in a trauma center...just a regular old US ER with in a small sized city.
DeleteI only once in 17 years saw a legal gun used to shoot someone. That happened to be during a home invasion where the woman of the house got her hands on the family gun just prior to being raped and was able to shoot one of the bad guys.
Other than that single time every single time was either a criminal with a gun or the police shooting someone.
You really don't have anything to fear from your law abiding neighbors. Now if you live in a high crime area, perhaps you might consider getting a gun yourself.
Shinny, you obviously don't live in a city where you have no idea what sort of lunatic might be living right next door .. where armed robbers work ... and to tell the truth, I have no gun, I can shoot a gun but I don't have one but I think that law abiding citizens of the USA have the Right to have a gun if they want one.
ReplyDeleteJust like citizens of the UK ... they don't hunt their squirrels and deer with bows and arrows.
I give people a bit more of credit ... if a person owns a gun, keeping it safe in their home.. where no one should know about it anyway- they don't bother me .
I have had total nutters living next door to me and they had no guns but they scared the crap out of me anyway ...
I think this is a "debate" that will never end / US vs UK opinions on guns.
Both countries have crime ..
First Man said much that explains our situation, but I would emphasize the fear part. Depending on what news outlets you watch/read here in the US, you may hear a daily drumbeat about wrongo's out to get you, threatening you, ready to kill you and your family in your beds. We're being told to fear brown people, black people, yellow people, your neighbors, law enforcement, and about everyone else. And there ARE people who should be feared. But I think that drumbeat of fear that we hear from the Trump administration on down has really stoked the trend.
ReplyDeleteWe are gun owners. My husband hunts deer, turkeys and feral hogs. Last time I commented, two of your commenters, were quite rude about it. They asked if I was from the Sudan and I must love the NRA and have been brainwashed etc. I hate the NRA, live in the American heartland, and I'm against any kind of bullets that pierce armor and automatic weapons, basically stuff that should remain only with policing or war. That said, I do have a gun under my bed. I can't use it outside in the city, but if intruders come inside my house, I do have the right to use it, though I'm quite sure I'll never have to. We do need stricter gun controls in the US, but I'm not sure if we can get anything past the NRA.
ReplyDeleteA common sense comment... thank you...And your right .. some people do not know how to have a discussion .. they only know how to be rude.....deb
DeleteYou have unleashed your inner beast. See what you have sparked, John? A proper discussion.
ReplyDeleteExcellent, interesting and educational comments. Considering that any coin has two sides, always worth taking the trouble to look at both of them. And then there is the rim ...
U
Wow, John I think you have opened a can of worms here. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Here's my question. How many of these people have had an experience like an assault or a rape and was so fearful, they felt the need to take lessons on gun safety and get their conceal and carry and purchase a weapon for their protection, so they wouldn't be a victim again? Or, has anyone whose made a comment here lost a loved one to needless violence? Has anyone here been armed and actually saved themselves, family members or just a stranger because they were armed and could protect themselves or their loved ones? In my opinion violence here in America is rampant. Not sure what the answer is. Damned if you do damned if you don't. I guess it would depend on what side of the coin you land on.
ReplyDeleteAmerica is the scariest country in the world!. Would never ever go!. It's own people do not see that it is a rich third world country!. No healthcare for everyone, everyone lives to work. No holiday time like Europe!. I have 9 weeks holiday!. We work to live!.
DeleteKirrie: Hmm, I hope you are not a Russian troll.
DeleteThere's a lot of hidden hatred here in America. Always has been. And since this President has been in office it seems (and I may be wrong, just my opinion) that every hate group in America has come out of the woodwork. It's pretty scary here. Maybe that's one reason more people are arming. I don't know.
ReplyDeleteWell John I feel that you've missed the point here - obviously it's vital to own and have guns, both regular and automatic, within easy access at home to protect oneself..... from Zombies! Lol!
ReplyDeleteI agree with you John.
ReplyDeleteRuth from Oxnard CA. USA
I thought this was interesting: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/09/19/just-three-percent-of-adults-own-half-of-americas-guns/?utm_term=.c10e5f64b92d
ReplyDeleteWow Kirrie for someone who has never been to the US you have some mighty narrow and frankly ridiculous opinions. Do you realize how big the US is and just how many various cultures, neighborhoods, villages, towns and cities we represent?
ReplyDeleteFunny but I work full time, get 20 hours paid time off per month and am working on my 2nd pension. And I've never been without healthcare a moment in my life. So toddle on with your narrow bigoted view. We won't miss you if you choose not to visit
Life here is tense these days, as you can imagine. I'm not the only person who wakes up clenching to hear what Pres. A. Sswipe has been up to overnight. Why nothing was done when schoolchildren have been killed is beyond my comprehension. But Vegas is all about money. And when everyone cancels their plans, entertainers don't book, and airlines and casinos see the effect on their revenue, when that whole industry says "Fix it," then maybe the NRA will have to be torn asunder. I sure hope so. Oh God, I hope so.
ReplyDeleteI support the right to bear arms, but NOT automatic weapons. I think of gun control laws kind of like seatbelt laws, or even having alarm systems on your home. We require the wearing of seatbelts by law, and yes, some people still get killed in accidents while wearing them. But no one can deny that they still save thousands of lives! Same with automatic weapons. Laws banning them won't keep every nut from getting his hands on one, but no doubt it would make it harder, and many would not be able to. Lives would be saved. There is just no need for everyone to have access to them. Like alarm systems and door locks - houses still will get broken into, but we don't just throw up our hands and say, oh well, you can't keep it from happening, let's just leave the doors unlocked. We lessen the odds by making it harder to do. Btw, my ex-husband was an avid bird hunter and sometime deer hunter and owned many beautiful shotguns and a couple of rifles, but had no interest in handguns. I say own your guns if you can pass the background checks, but NO automatic weapons...
ReplyDeleteI was introduced to guns as a young person so have some understanding of why those I knew then had them. They hunted but only legally and for animals or birds that were a food source for their family, just as they fished. Since they lived in rural areas a gun was viewed as essential if farm animals had to be put down and also for family protection. The circumstances under which so many people own guns today, and the type of guns they have are so different than anything I knew. There is definite need for some regulation on gun ownership and no logical reason why there shouldn’t be. I don’t profess to know all the reasons why people own guns, but think there are some opponents to gun restrictions because they’re viewed as a threat — should the need ever arise to have to defend their personal and our nation’s freedom on this continent they will have a weapon. Ownership anonymity is probably considered to be necessary so they can’t be easily traced to have their gun taken away by subjugating forces.
ReplyDeleteYou have to understand the internal politics of the US, to understand why there's a fight to protect semi-automatics. The foundation of the US began, after the War of Independence. Which birthed the Constitution, ensuring no government could ever hold a right over a citizen, like the British government had, formerly. So the very constitution you don't understand being clung to, today, was the very thing that freed the US from British dominion.
ReplyDeleteI'm an Australian, so know somewhat about that experience - and I'm part indigenous too, with some recent blood ties to Britain, with my father immigrating. My indigenous ancestry, recognises WHY that Constitutional right was written by the Founding Forefathers. The Britain you know today, is nothing like the WAR MACHINE it was, devouring whole continents and the resources/people in them.
After the US received it's independence, they eventually embarked on a Civil War, sparked by slavery. One half of the country, armed themselves against, the other half of the country, for the ultimate battle of supremacy, to decide who could write the rules.
When you live in a country with descendants, who lived with the legacy of being out-gunned - you don't willing give up the right to be as "equally" armed, as the highest level of power.
Even though I don't like what happened in Las Vegas, please consider the genocide which has happened by government, when it's given ultimate power over it's citizenry. How many aristocrats have lost their head, under British rule? How many women and children were forced into stealing, and subsequently being shipped to an entirely new continent - to pay for their crimes?
Britain learned how to keep it's laundry "civil", but it didn't mean it wasn't beyond using it's aristocracy to kill innocents, in great numbers. The US is open and honest about that process, by allowing its citizenry an equal position at the table.
Ask yourself, if Britain or Australia, has ever done that? Or have we always been under "rule", and accepted our place to get along?
Interesting , thank you
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